Handball?
- Thread starter deusex
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Hartlepool_ref
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deusex
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Let us not forget pg 119:
"the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an
infringement"
I think this is a very generic statement to throw in with no clarification. Does this mean all this "unnatural position" stuff is rubbish?
I can't find any reference to "hands in unnatural position" in LOTG so....
"the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an
infringement"
I think this is a very generic statement to throw in with no clarification. Does this mean all this "unnatural position" stuff is rubbish?
I can't find any reference to "hands in unnatural position" in LOTG so....
sooooooo !!! When a law is left open to interpretation you will never get consistency from referees
Yah, I dislike how that video was put together. The ref in that case is dead-on accurate. Unfortunately in the match in question? He was in a great position, but what turned out to be a poor position to see that handling. The AAR was looking through the body and couldn't see it, and the AR was unable to see it either.
Spot on!... The position of the hand doesn't necessarily mean handball.... the stuff people are saying about unnatural position is just confusing the matter.
The main point I think people should consider is that for handball to be awarded, the hand moves towards the ball and not the other war around.....as per LOTG.
That said..... common sense should also play a part. If the player gained any advantage, i would probably give the fk. After all, why is this lunatic putting a hand up for offside when an offside offence clearly hasn't been made yet!..... lol if only players even cared to learn the offside rule!
Sometimes,in a 50/50 decision....the one with least controversy is the best one
..... give the fk!
Russell Jones
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As regards inaccurate, for starters, leaving your hand stationary and allowing the ball to hit it is handball - when the ball travels far enough to give you the choice of course. So that's one example of 'ball to hand' rather than 'hand to ball' ....
PS I saw no arrogance in your post though
PS I saw no arrogance in your post though
As regards inaccurate, for starters, leaving your hand stationary and allowing the ball to hit it is handball - when the ball travels far enough to give you the choice of course. So that's one example of 'ball to hand' rather than 'hand to ball' ....
PS I saw no arrogance in your post though
The LOTG state that hand must go towards the ball. ..... however, if you check my post, i did go onto say tnat common sense should also be applied
Russell Jones
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Mal, if you're talking about p115, the list of factors there, including 'the movement of the hand to the ball', are simply the considerations to be taken into account when deciding if an offence has been comitted, not things that must be true.The LOTG state that hand must go towards the ball. ..... however, if you check my post, i did go onto say tnat common sense should also be applied
The overall key point is that the ref must decide the ball hitting the hand was a deliberate act by the offending player - which could be because he moved his hand to the ball, could be he chose not to move it out of the way or could be because he placed his hand in an 'unnatural' position
Why refer to a player as a 'lunatic'?
is that what they're teaching in assessor / tutor school these days?
As for the inaccuracy, russell has already pointed that out
Russ - I am well aware of the considerations. And that's why i stated that common sense should always come into it. The confusing part for some younger referees is the phrase 'unnatural position'...... where are people getting this from?..... if referees stuck to the that idea, referees would be penalising players when they had their hands behind their backs!.....
i prefer to coach 'common sense' over the idea of 'unnatural position'.... ... I do appreciate and understand your points Russ, and that's what makes us a different, yet viable, on the fop. Refereeing......its all about angles and opinions Haywain - lol... you appear to be on this site for argument rather than to share experiences and opinions..... (in my opinion).
As for the lunatic comment..... surely you see this is a tongue in cheek comment...meant in jest....to mean that putti g his hand in the air proved to be a little silly as nobody was even offside yet. Surely being a Blackpool supporter you have a sense of humour eh?...
And no.... my opinions are just that. Opinions that come from education and experience.... not innacurate at all.... just different to yours... ( and I'm glad about that
)
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
I've never come across anybody being confused over the idea of 'natural position'
'use your common sense', however, is rather meaningless as a coaching statement.
It's a summation. It's a lot easier to say that then 'does he have a reason for his hand being there?' Means exactly the same thing, and that's what the LOTG means when it says to consider the position of the arm.
'use your common sense', however, is rather meaningless as a coaching statement.
It's a summation. It's a lot easier to say that then 'does he have a reason for his hand being there?' Means exactly the same thing, and that's what the LOTG means when it says to consider the position of the arm.
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???
Considering arm position and whether it needs to be there IS using your common sense........ isnt it?!
And if I'm coaching a young ref and remind him of the importance of applying common sense to some decisions....... i dont see that as meaningless.
I think some people should consider the fact that 2 or more people can have a different opinion yet both or all be correct.
yes, Mal, but giving a free kick for deliberate handball, as you have said that you would in this scenario, when, to quote the o/p,
'Ball played over the top, defender (whilst running with his back to the ball, ie toward his own goal) puts his hand up to appeal for offisde.
Ball hits his bloody hand and drops dead on the ground.
The man had no idea where the ball was as he had turned pretty much as soon as it was kicked'
is clearly wrong as per the lotg....but you can't see that that can you....just like the player and the ball in question
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