Grassroots Corner Trick - 'Ball In Play' Shout To Referee - Y/N

[Graham B]

In a grassroots U18 game I was AR.
On a corner, a player moved the ball forward with his foot on top of it about 10 inches, and said so only I could hear, that the 'ball was in play', then casually jogged to the goal line up.. He then told his team mate to go to the ball (from the goal line up) in a way that was like he wanted him take it, trying to play a trick on the opposing team. The referee had no idea the ball was in play, we had no comms, so to avoid what the referee would have called a double touch (and consequent indirect free kick to the defending team, that would have then become a dropped ball due to the deception in the end), I shouted to the referee 'ball in play' as the attacker got to the ball to avoid a confusing mess. Players looked over confused in general.
Did I do the right thing?

At half-time I discussed this with the referee about a signal from me should this happen again were I do not need to shout and allow the deception. I came up with eye contact, slow flag wave pointing down. The referee said he had no idea the ball was in play and would have whistled a double touch too, so thought it was a good idea for me to shout..

Please can I have your opinions.
Did I do the right thing?
Is there an AR signal for corner deception?
Kindest regards
Graham

 

[Samuel]

To be honest, if I was in the middle unless the flag goes up for something wrong I'm not paying any attention to the taking of the corner.

This will obviously depend on the referee but in this situation it seems like you did the right thing to assist the ref and work as a team.

 

[one]

For the OP, I think as an AR you did the right thing.

I don't like this type of deception. It is not in the spirit of the game. It misuses a common understanding that players are allowed to use their feet to place the ball for a restart.

For me in the scenario of the OP, as a referee I could do one of two things. Blow the whistle and ask the corner to be taken (again) but in a way that it is not a 'secret' kick.

Alternatively if I allow play to continue, the next time a player from the same team uses their foot the set the ball, and take another kick for a restart, I'd call for a double touch. They set the precedent. You can't have the cake and eat it too. I realise this may be controversial.

 

[RefereeX]

For the OP, I think as an AR you did the right thing.

I don't like this type of deception. It is not in the spirit of the game. It misuses a common understanding that players are allowed to use their feet to place the ball for a restart.

For me in the scenario of the OP, as a referee I could do one of two things. Blow the whistle and ask the corner to be taken (again) but in a way that it is not a 'secret' kick.

Alternatively if I allow play to continue, the next time a player from the same team uses their foot the set the ball, and take another kick for a restart, I'd call for a double touch. They set the precedent. You can't have the cake and eat it too. I realise this may be controversial.

I don't disagree with the sentiment of not liking it. It also means that another player who came to take that ball has the option to grab it and reset it if the deception hasn't worked, unless the match officials are aware it was definitely taken.... but if I am told about it, I will allow it, because I think football accepts it despite the fact we don't personally like it.

 

[one]

but if I am told about it, I will allow it, because I think football accepts it despite the fact we don't personally like it.

Which means my option 2 is activated.


This is from 16-17 laws. The "clearly moves" was brought in to stop the unsporting act, which is not the touching or movement of the ball, but the pretence that the corner has not been taken. Players used to just touch the ball for the same routine, now just move it a little bit to get around the law that was brough in to stop it. IMO if we allow this to happen, it is just going to force IFAB bring further law changes to stop something that referees shouldn't be allowing in the first place.

 

[socal lurker]

I don't disagree with the sentiment of not liking it. It also means that another player who came to take that ball has the option to grab it and reset it if the deception hasn't worked, unless the match officials are aware it was definitely taken.... but if I am told about it, I will allow it, because I think football accepts it despite the fact we don't personally like it.

I don’t see why being told about it should have anything to do about it. I’m not letting one team whisper to me about how they want to trick the other team into not thinking the ball is in play. I still think the right answer is for the ball to have to leave the arc on a Ck (and the GA on a GK) to give more clarity on ball in play.

(Like @one, if a team is getting cute about whether the ball is in play, I am far more likely to understand them to have put the ball in play and permit the other team to run in or to call a double touch. This isn’t Schroedinger’s cat where the ball is both in play and not in play based on what the kicking team wants afterwards.

(As an aside, it drives me nuts when youth teams are doing this. Teams have very limited practice time, and instead of teaching the game, knucklehead coaches are wasting their practice time on this nonsense. It’s a real disservice to the kids.)

 

[RefereeX]

I don’t see why being told about it should have anything to do about it. I’m not letting one team whisper to me about how they want to trick the other team into not thinking the ball is in play. I still think the right answer is for the ball to have to leave the arc on a Ck (and the GA on a GK) to give more clarity on ball in play.

(Like @one, if a team is getting cute about whether the ball is in play, I am far more likely to understand them to have put the ball in play and permit the other team to run in or to call a double touch. This isn’t Schroedinger’s cat where the ball is both in play and not in play based on what the kicking team wants afterwards.

(As an aside, it drives me nuts when youth teams are doing this. Teams have very limited practice time, and instead of teaching the game, knucklehead coaches are wasting their practice time on this nonsense. It’s a real disservice to the kids.)

The bit in bold is exactly why I think it's important that an official is told... If I know, then I can act accordingly.

 

[socal lurker]

The bit in bold is exactly why I think it's important that an official is told... If I know, then I can act accordingly.

This is where I think we disagree. The team doesn’t get to do the same thing and one time it is in play and another it isn’t because they whispered something to the ref that the other team hasn’t heard. I suppose if they tell me, I may be more aware the ball is in play—but I also may be more aware and decide the ball is in play when they weren’t really intending it. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[RefereeX]

This is where I think we disagree. The team doesn’t get to do the same thing and one time it is in play and another it isn’t because they whispered something to the ref that the other team hasn’t heard. I suppose if they tell me, I may be more aware the ball is in play—but I also may be more aware and decide the ball is in play when they weren’t really intending it. Be careful what you wish for.

No I agree with you on the closing point. I will always assume to start a match that the ball isn’t kicked, then if they tell me they’re doing that I will accept it, but any further occasions of similar, whether I’m told or not, will be treated as taken

 

[RustyRef]

There was a spell of this happening at the top level, then I'm pretty sure the referees told them they wouldn't allow it

 

[socal lurker]

It’s also not that hard to stop as a defensive team once you know it’s a risk. As soon as the other team has a player walk away from the ball in the corner, run to take it. Worst thing that happens is R says ball want in play and tells you to move back.

 

[JamesL]

The bit in bold is exactly why I think it's important that an official is told... If I know, then I can act accordingly.

I disagree. If you tell me it definitely isn't happening. No way am I being brought into the deception as far as being perceptively actively involed