Goal kicks

[MattyontheWhistle]

Well, the ball was put out of play because a player was injured, so it is universally accepted that possession is given back from the throw in.

When this happens, it is universally accepted that you pass it to the goalkeeper/defending player and not try to score.

However, after the referee had clearly signaled for the throw in to be taken, with a universally accepted arm signal, the Norwich player shoots and scores.

The goal is disallowed.

Only thing 'Legal' in that scenario was that the ref hadn't blown his whistle to restart play, however, it was quite clear to all that he had signaled for the throw to be taken, and therefore, in Law the goal should have stood. It was universally accepted that the ref did the right thing by disallowing the goal wasn't it?

Now, if we are going to be pedantic, the ref shouldn't have used an arm signal to restart play, he should have blown, but I doubt very much that it would have been an issue otherwise. If the ball had gone back to keeper's hands, would anyone have complained about the referee signal?

When we are using the FIFA term of 'Universal Acceptance' I am reading as 'Unwritten Rule' or am I wrong?

 

[HullRef]

In that instance Mike Jones was right IMO to order a retake but I would call that unsporting behaviour.
I personally agree with you that " universal acceptance" is the same as "unwritten rule" but what I don't understand is the term "unwritten rule" because to me if it isn't in the LOTG or the Competition rules then it isn't a rule.

But just because everyone does something doesn't make it right (or certainly something else wrong). I think the only exception to this is the Norwich goal, using common sense, Mike Jones made the right decision but like you said in Law he was wrong.

 

[MattyontheWhistle]

Can;t argue with any of that, Mike Jones was correct in what he did, noone would disagree, but 'unsporting behaviour' is a bit much as that deserves a YC.

 

[haywain]

Interpretation of the Laws of the Game says this, under Law 6

'Goal kick - The assistant referees must check first if the ball is inside the goal area.
- If the ball is not placed correctly, the assistant referee must....raise his flag
- once the ball is placed correctly etc etc

Since IFAB says this:-

The International FA Board (IFAB) is of the opinion that the Laws should be kept as simple and as straightforward as possible and that differences of application should be resolved by 'rulings or decisions', rather than by further definitions of Law.

IFAB consists of the four British Associations and FIFA. It meets annually and its decisions are binding on all National Associations.

IFAB has reminded all National Associations that it is their duty to ensure the strict application of the LOTG by referees and players

then Neale Barry's 'universal acceptance' doesn't apply

 

[MattyontheWhistle]

Interpretation of the Laws of the Game says this, under Law 6

'Goal kick - The assistant referees must check first if the ball is inside the goal area.
- If the ball is not placed correctly, the assistant referee must....raise his flag
- once the ball is placed correctly etc etc

Fair enough then,. as long as the ball is placed on the ground, it can still be moving as long as it is within the goal area when kicked.

 

[frank_ref]

I remember way back in Euro 96, England vs Scotland. I think Steve Hendrie had a penalty saved by Seaman and I saw the ball move slightly just before he kicked it. Noone asked for a retake.

Yeah, but who's gonna listen to an eight-year-old?

Also, Hendrie would have potted it no problem. Top corner, probably. With a bit of side on it.

I think you're thinking Colin Hendry. Or, rather, Gary McAllister.

As for the "rolling ball on a goal kick" - first I heard of this was when someone told me an assessor had pulled him up on it. The ball wasn't stationary and the ref had ordered a retake; the assessor told him he was wrong. I looked it up and couldn't see anything about the ball being stationary. And, of course, for the first time ever I had the same situation in my next match. The opposing team were complaining and I just said, there's nothing in Law against it and we played on. But it certainly didn't do my credibility any good.

Something like this: it is a can of worms. Most players don't know even the basic Laws so confusing them with something people at the FA don't understand probably doesn't do anyone any favours. It may not be written in Law but requiring a stationary ball at a goal kick isn't a hard sell. And if the goalkeeper knows the ambiguity and wants to be a dick about it: well, he's gonna be on his own there. Plus, the interpretation of Law 6, as outlined by Haywain, certainly leans towards "stationary ball". (The dictionary definition of "to place" is "to put in a particular position".)

In a nutshell, FIFA need to pull their fingers out and add a few little words to the goal kick Law.

 

[MattyontheWhistle]

lol, sorry - don;ty know where that came from - was definately Colin Hendry against Seaman, and Seaman said after that the ball moved slightly just as he was about to kick it.
Same game that Gazza left Hendry on his backside on the edge of box before scoring!

 

[frank_ref]

I remember way back in Euro 96, England vs Scotland. Steve Hendrie had a penalty saved by Seaman and I saw the ball move slightly just before he kicked it.

I think you're thinking Colin Hendry. Or, rather, Gary McAllister.

Definitely Colin Hendry against Seaman.

It's hard to make wagers about such things in this day and age, what with google and everything, but if you're up for a bet I am too. I'm willing to go in pretty heavy. Maybe I'm being foolish but what the hey. Whadya say?

 

[haywain]

My money's on Frank

Clip starts with the penalty - i didn't see the ball move, mind

 

[MattyontheWhistle]

I stand corrected, although in my defence I was watching the penalty from behind the other goal lol. In interviews afterwards, Seaman said he saw the ball move slightly to the left as McAllister drew his leg back, and Seaman already on his way to his right - which is why the ball didn't go far to the corner of the goal, and Seaman over-dived for it. Had it stayed stationary, he would still have saved it!

If you look really carefully, you can spot me in the crowd after Gazza's goal!

 

[Cheshire Ref]

Can I just throw something into the mix Law 16 states "The ball is kicked from any point within the goal area by a player of the defending team" this law does not actually state whether the ball has to be stationary but it doesn't actually state that it has to be from the ground either, so theoretically at a goal kick if a goalkeeper picks up the ball and drop kicks it to the half way line he has not contravened any laws has he.

 

[Mick.]

Blimey. Don't start with that one. We have enough debate over a moving ball!

 

[haywain]

Can I just throw something into the mix Law 16 states "The ball is kicked from any point within the goal area by a player of the defending team" this law does not actually state whether the ball has to be stationary but it doesn't actually state that it has to be from the ground either, so theoretically at a goal kick if a goalkeeper picks up the ball and drop kicks it to the half way line he has not contravened any laws has he.

there's some reference somewhere, might be in assistant referee lotg or interpretation about the ball being 'placed' which which suggest from the ground

 

[Cheshire Ref]

Your right Haywain Law 6 - The Assistant Referee does state that -

The assistant referees must check first if the ball is inside the goal area:
• if the ball is not placed correctly, the assistant referee must not move
from his position, make eye contact with the referee and raise his flag

But if law 16 states the ball can be placed anywhere with the penalty area then where can it be placed "correctly" and how long is placed placed for? One bounce? I know I am being a bit of a d**k but it always has made me laugh that, its a good job that most players don't know the laws, another example would be if 12 players decide to contest a drop ball!!

 

[Southend-ref]

Your right Haywain Law 6 - The Assistant Referee does state that -

The assistant referees must check first if the ball is inside the goal area:
• if the ball is not placed correctly, the assistant referee must not move
from his position, make eye contact with the referee and raise his flag

But if law 16 states the ball can be placed anywhere with the penalty area then where can it be placed "correctly" and how long is placed placed for? One bounce? I know I am being a bit of a d**k but it always has made me laugh that, its a good job that most players don't know the laws, another example would be if 12 players decide to contest a drop ball!!

I'm a goalkeeper - I wonder whether a referee would pull me up on it.

 

[Southend-ref]

My money's on Frank

Clip starts with the penalty - i didn't see the ball move, mind

Can you imagine wearing a ref kit like that nowadays!

 

[Southend-ref]

Yeah I understand the loosing control thing but would you agree that it is right in law?

I'm a goalkeeper and if I tried this and the referee penalised me, I would tell him that there is nothing in law which prevents me from doing it, surely he wouldn't have a leg to stand on. The simple response to a player's argument is 'I agree the law is weird but it's not my job to agree with it, just apply it.'

 

[haywain]

I'm a goalkeeper and if I tried this and the referee penalised me, I would tell him that there is nothing in law which prevents me from doing it, surely he wouldn't have a leg to stand on. The simple response to a player's argument is 'I agree the law is weird but it's not my job to agree with it, just apply it.'

Don't forget, Southend, the referee's decision is final, right or wrong