A&H

Goal keeper drop kick

RustyRef said:
Would it? Keepers already run to the edge of the area, so by definition anyone trying to block the release would already be outside of the area.
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@RefJef , I agree, I think this solution would work well. Keepers would just need to get used to the idea that they needed to kick the ball upfield from deeper in the penalty area!
 
The Referee Store
Big Cat said:
OK, so when we get hung drawn and quartered in a game, do we just tell the executioner that it's Ok cos proreferees.com said blah blah blah?
Not having a pop at you of course, just the absurdity of it all. One observer would likely crucify us for one thing and another for doing the other thing
Typical football

FWIW, that's a goal BTW and a massive subsequent headache
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All l said was that it was a good read 😀. No we don't say because proreferees.com said bla bla. Just the same we don't say refchat.co.uk said bla bla after reading it for 5 years and writing 6.6K posts on it (8K in my case).

This topic has been contentious ever since it came into the laws so the absurdity is not going to go away anytime soon.
 
Russell Jones said:
I think the part between 4.46 and 4.50 is the most interesting. Because many referees (including yourself it seems) start to have issues with the attacker's actions here. However, in my current opinion (it has changed over time!), the attacker is entitled to that position on the field and the GK shows no real interest in releasing the ball into play, even though he has an obvious, unblocked chance to send it short to the left back. For me, it's when the GK commits to a kick upfield (around 4.50) that the attacker needs to stop and not interfere with the release
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So, for you, in this case, no offence?

…when the GK finally commits, the attacker is soooo far away…
 
Russell Jones said:
I think the part between 4.46 and 4.50 is the most interesting. Because many referees (including yourself it seems) start to have issues with the attacker's actions here. However, in my current opinion (it has changed over time!), the attacker is entitled to that position on the field and the GK shows no real interest in releasing the ball into play, even though he has an obvious, unblocked chance to send it short to the left back. For me, it's when the GK commits to a kick upfield (around 4.50) that the attacker needs to stop and not interfere with the release
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Is the game as a whole better if keepers are blocked from starting (IMO) exciting and quick counter attacks or getting the ball quickly into attaking areas, and instead are forced to play to full backs and go through slow build-up from the back?

I'm just not really sure why people are arguing for allowing this? It encourages worse and more boring football if keepers are forced to play safe, it winds players up and raises the temperature of the game when it happens, and it's very easy to become dangerous if done wrong. And the benefit is that on very rare occasions, you get to add a controversial and essentially unearned goal? Nowhere near enough to justify allowing it for me.
 
GraemeS said:
Is the game as a whole better if keepers are blocked from starting (IMO) exciting and quick counter attacks or getting the ball quickly into attaking areas, and instead are forced to play to full backs and go through slow build-up from the back?

I'm just not really sure why people are arguing for allowing this? It encourages worse and more boring football if keepers are forced to play safe, it winds players up and raises the temperature of the game when it happens, and it's very easy to become dangerous if done wrong. And the benefit is that on very rare occasions, you get to add a controversial and essentially unearned goal? Nowhere near enough to justify allowing it for me.
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The reason we are debating the topic is to get referees on the same page with regard to an extremely common situation, one that occurs dozens of times in a typical game. And our job is simply to properly enforce the LOTG rather than do what we personally think is best for football. The fact is, all players are entitled to their position on the pitch ... defenders don't need to stand aside to let attackers get past them , attackers can stand in front of GKs at corners etc. And in the case of a GK releasing the ball into play, the Laws do NOT say that they have the right to do this however they choose ... only that attackers cannot prevent them from doing so.
 
But the whole existence of the debate suggests it's anything but clear what the laws do/don't say? I haven't got the time to search right now, but I'm not convinced the laws do say any of this:
Russell Jones said:
The fact is, all players are entitled to their position on the pitch ... defenders don't need to stand aside to let attackers get past them , attackers can stand in front of GKs at corners etc. And in the case of a GK releasing the ball into play, the Laws do NOT say that they have the right to do this however they choose ... only that attackers cannot prevent them from doing so.
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So much of "what football expects" is inference from watching the sport, or restrictions we have to put in place in order to make it all run smoothly. I think I know what works best as a clear and easy to consistently apply rule - but I think that's something I've had to come up with myself, not something the laws specify.
 
Russell Jones said:
... And in the case of a GK releasing the ball into play, the Laws do NOT say that they have the right to do this however they choose ... only that attackers cannot prevent them from doing so.
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Surely by that logic, 10 opposition players could stand in a circle around the GK as long as he has one small corridor that he can release the ball through?

As with many laws, there is enough ambiguity for me to decide for myself if I think a player is preventing the GK from releasing the ball.
 
DazN said:
Surely by that logic, 10 opposition players could stand in a circle around the GK as long as he has one small corridor that he can release the ball through?

As with many laws, there is enough ambiguity for me to decide for myself if I think a player is preventing the GK from releasing the ball.
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This law needs to be tweaked to stop this situation being possible. One or two lines would prevent this so easily.
 
one said:
All l said was that it was a good read 😀. No we don't say because proreferees.com said bla bla. Just the same we don't say refchat.co.uk said bla bla after reading it for 5 years and writing 6.6K posts on it (8K in my case).

This topic has been contentious ever since it came into the laws so the absurdity is not going to go away anytime soon.
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My frustration is just that WE (referees) don't collectively know how to deal with this common scenario
This frustrates me. If we don't say refchat/proreferee said 'blah blah blah', what other justification do we have for our actions? This wishy washy aspect of the LOTG (or teachings to a privileged few (teachings which often vary on a Geographical basis)) is not good enough, especially for a common scenario
Defo not being critical of you in anyway, just venting frustration at reasons for inconsistent (and therefore poor) refereeing
 
The other offense in the toolbox is impeding. Opponents routinely interfere with the GK by running in front of him to impede his movement as he tries to release the ball. We routinely ignore this, hopefully because the GK would still rather have the ball in his hands than a FK. But I do think it also focusing on the GK-specific offense of preventing release and losing sight of the general impeding offense.
 
Where I got that video from, on this forum, there was a longer debate on this topic. The other offence suggested there was challenging the keeper for the ball while he is in control of it. Preventing to release is far easier to sell.
 
Ori said:
Is blocking a goal keeper from taking a drop kick a bookable offence now?

I know you’re not allowed to even attempt to get in the way of a drop kick. (Don’t agree with the rule, but it’s the rule!)
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If you're talking about the offence of preventing the goalkeeper from releasing the ball (and I think you are) then that's been an offence since at least 2002, if not earlier.

Or in any event, that's the first edition of the laws that I have a copy of, where it shows up.

It was definitely added some time between 1998 and 2002 but strangely I can't find it listed as a change in any of the IFAB meeting minutes for those years.

Ori said:
I thought that changes these season?
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There are no changes in this part of the law for this season (that I can find).
 
Guidance was given to Football League (maybe NL too, but not sure) to say the expectation here if for a caution.

But this again goes into a few other threads we have had recently; it hasn’t been filtered out to the lower tiers.
 
Not an offence IMO, and certainly not a caution. Daft second yellow to get though!

EDIT: changed my mind watching it a second time - originally I didn't notice the attacker has walked across to follow the GK. IDFK. Still not a caution.
 
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