Only seen the last 10 so not caught the other decisions yet. Will seek them out
Fulham v Wolves
- Thread starter ladbroke8745
- Start date
This is also a problem with VAR. The only situation I can ever remember of a referee going to the screen and not overruling their initial decision is in a game that Salisbury refereed last year.
santa sangria
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Re-refereeing again.
Loads of interference minimum benefit.
An average match ruined as a spectacle.
And a referee who did not seem in control because someone 100 miles away was.
And people are still paying to watch?
Loads of interference minimum benefit.
An average match ruined as a spectacle.
And a referee who did not seem in control because someone 100 miles away was.
And people are still paying to watch?
R
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Kavanagh did it in the Merseyside Derby as well, I think
socal lurker
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How common do you think it should be? The VAR is only supposed to recommend the on field review if the VAR thinks there was a C&O error. so it should general be the case that the R and VAR are going to agree. (Though perhaps not quite as often as they do in the PL.)
A lot of noise in this post but I think the only real talking point is the late penalty. Gomes might have fouled Wilson, he probably did foul him, but the original decision was most definitely not clearly and obviously wrong.
This can only be one of two things: either the officials can't follow simple instructions and keep getting it wrong, or the constant meddling by management is just confusing the hell out of them. I cannot even begin to fathom how Stuart Attwell has sent Michael Salisbury to the screen for that challenge. If that is what PGMOL want they need to publicly come out and say why, if it is yet more human error then I'm afraid they need to start sanctioning the officials involved, and I'm getting to the point that it needs to be more demotion than suspension.
This can only be one of two things: either the officials can't follow simple instructions and keep getting it wrong, or the constant meddling by management is just confusing the hell out of them. I cannot even begin to fathom how Stuart Attwell has sent Michael Salisbury to the screen for that challenge. If that is what PGMOL want they need to publicly come out and say why, if it is yet more human error then I'm afraid they need to start sanctioning the officials involved, and I'm getting to the point that it needs to be more demotion than suspension.
Think it is arguably a challenge for the ball.
R
Runner-Ref
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I've always been for transparency and being honest if you b*lls up. But this stuff seems to be happening so often, it's doing more harm. They'd be better off saying nothing at this stage.
Refereeing isn't as bad as people make out, but it has definitely dipped. Whether that is down to poorer officials, VAR or poor management is the question.
ladbroke8745
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Howard Webb urges VAR officials to intervene more often on soft penalties
VAR officials have been asked to encourage referees to review decisions involving minimal contact even if an error is not ‘clear and obvious’
Just last week I think (didn't look for date on the article to be fair, but know Wolves v Sheff Utd was recent).
Wants refs to be more vocal on soft pens then gives a soft pen and doesn't recommend a review for a soft pen....
Everyone seems to love Howard Webb but honestly I don’t see how he’s making anything better. Under him we’ve seen more incorrect VAR intervention, more apologies to clubs and an increased focus on referees in the media. This isn’t a case of a couple of referees occasionally making errors - they are being told to referee the games and use VAR in a certain way.
It is natural that VAR itself also invited a lot more scrutiny upon referees. Before VAR this would have been relatively standard refereeing performance - sure there’d have been debate, but also understanding that the refereeing team could only see the incident once like the rest of us.
It is natural that VAR itself also invited a lot more scrutiny upon referees. Before VAR this would have been relatively standard refereeing performance - sure there’d have been debate, but also understanding that the refereeing team could only see the incident once like the rest of us.
I saw the clips of the Vinicious 'headbutt' and for me I accept a yellow for that, I do think it's more petulant than violent and we seen in the Spurs Chelsea game where a petulant act was deemed a yellow card instead of a red. I mean if the Wolves player went down clutching his face and the Fulham man gets sent off then it's just encouraging simulation in my view.
Have we given up on calling a simulated headbutt that doesn't make contact VC?
I don't believe for one minute that the officials admitted to all those errors straight after the game. They might well have spoken to O'Neill, but I can see no reason why they would admit to errors. They won't have had time to have properly analysed the decisions, they wouldn't know what their bosses thought about the decisions, nor what the independent panel will think about them. They would be in serious hot water if they admitted to mistakes and then they were backed by PGMOL and the independent panel as being correct. I suspect it was probably more like "we will have a look at them and apologise if they were wrong" and Gary O'Neill and his team have taken that as admissions of errors, wouldn't be the first time that has happened after all.
That's not to say there weren't errors, I don't see how VAR can look at one penalty with minimal contact and not recommend a review and then look at another with equally minimal contact and send the referee to the screen. I do think we are getting very close to the straw being added that will break the camel's back, Webb is going to come under pressure to make someone the sacrificial lamb and demote them.
They're subjective errors. Clear errors IMO, but still subjective ones. In a world where Darren England is still eligible for VAR gigs after the Spurs/Liverpool debacle, I still think we're a long way off any meaningful demotions for anything remotely subjective.
That was the opportunity to do it while still maintaining an extremely high bar on what can result in a demotion, and Webb fluffed the chance. I said this at the time regarding the concept of a replay, but the same applies to demotions - doing it based off that incident actually doesn't open a can of worms, because the frequency of that kind of factual mistake is incredibly low. And it would have set the bar at that high "factual" level. But doing anything based off subjective decisions - even if there is evidenced totting up, say "we can point at X incorrect KMIs in Y games - is the can of worms that should be avoided.
That was the opportunity to do it while still maintaining an extremely high bar on what can result in a demotion, and Webb fluffed the chance. I said this at the time regarding the concept of a replay, but the same applies to demotions - doing it based off that incident actually doesn't open a can of worms, because the frequency of that kind of factual mistake is incredibly low. And it would have set the bar at that high "factual" level. But doing anything based off subjective decisions - even if there is evidenced totting up, say "we can point at X incorrect KMIs in Y games - is the can of worms that should be avoided.
socal lurker
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Demotions for an error is, IMO, a ridiculous idea. Demotions and promotions should be base ona body of work. High perormers make bad mistakes at time. Demoting refs for a bad mistake is not going to improve reffing. It’s going to remove generally solid performers and replace them with untested refs who will be promoted. Any demotions need to be on body of work.
Not to rehash that old thread, but England was also responsible for what was arguably the biggest VAR non-subjective offside mistake in the PL before the Spurs/LFC, where he missed Saka being clearly offside before going on to score a few years ago. If I were Webb, I simply wouldn't trust him not to cause a problem from the VAR booth any more.
Do referees actually get demoted from SG1? I don't mean knee-jerk responses to poor decisions, but just generally at the end of seasons? Aside from older referees choosing to step down and the semi-retired VAR-only Dean and Moss being nudged into full retirement early, I can't recall the last time a "peak age" official got moved back to SG2? That seems problematic in general.
this is a big issue for me (and i get why it's incredibly hard to do) but there's no real jeopardy for prem refs. they make a mistake and not much happens. they make numerous mistakes and not much happens. i long for an active promotion/relegation system akin to what we have up and down the pyramid but appreciate this isnt really feasible with the professional contracts they all have now.
ladbroke8745
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I'd like to see that too... Keeps refs on their toes...
Also, it could stop breeding familiarity. In that the same players don't see the same refs year in year out if you're playing for a top team.
They can be seen as "pally" to some newly promoted teams etc to the stars who they've been refereeing for for a few years now compared to the fresh ones.