The Ref Stop

Frustrating news regarding promotion

Gio

Gio

New Member
Level 7 Referee
Hi guys , just wanted to share this , mainly as might make me feel better!

I was under the impression that I was on game 6 of my 7-6 promotion last weekend after applying and receiving application pack etc.

However got in touch with the super mentor to ask afew questions and he was confused , saying I never got in touch with him when I completed my first 5 games. Therefore none of my games have counted and I need to wait until next window.

He was very supportive but this has knocked me as I have been getting really good feedback and whilst I acknowledge my refereeing is in its infancy , I feel a need to move as at 35 I feel like time is against me when it comes to getting to where I want to be .

Anyways , decided just keep learning and go for promotion in new year .

Cheers guys

Gio
 
The Ref Stop
Why not do it in the second promotion window this season?

Edit: Apologies, misread. I thought you said next year, not new year!
 
Viridis1886 said:
Why not do it in the second promotion window this season?

Edit: Apologies, misread. I thought you said next year, not new year!
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Yeah , will look to smash through in the new year.

Just feel like I may need a double promotion year (not suggesting I will be able to even achieve this but I'm setting targets) and a 6-5 , 5-4 in one season I imagine a lot harder than 7-6 , 6,5 year.

Thanks for reply 👍
 
Gio said:
Yeah , will look to smash through in the new year.

Just feel like I may need a double promotion year (not suggesting I will be able to even achieve this but I'm setting targets) and a 6-5 , 5-4 in one season I imagine a lot harder than 7-6 , 6,5 year.

Thanks for reply 👍
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You'll have to serve a full year at L5 before you can be promoted to L4, so a double jump from 6-5-4 isn't feasible I'm afraid.
 
As @george.g has said for better or for worse the FA decided to scrap the midseason 5-4 promotions and now only allow the full season or full year promotions. But from my experience that extra 6 months it forces you to take will be the most beneficial 6 months yet as if I had gotten my 4 for the start of this season I know I wouldn't have been ready.

The counter argument as to why this is bad is that it seems to slow people down and in your case adds potentially an extra 12 months to your development.
 
FirsFox40 said:
Never a bad thing.
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While I would agree with you I don't see it as a bad thing, that is just the complaint I have heard from other 5-4 candidates especially now that the nomination is less of a guarantee of being promoted. I hope that in a few years we can look back and how this has affected the current crop of L4s and see a positive outcome, and say that the FA made the right decision.
 
One reason perhaps for the end of mid-season promotions from 5-4 is because of the many L4’s who are struggling to get Middles.
 
I thought for Level 7-5 there are usually 4 promotion windows in a season with games carrying over, so it should still be achievable to double-promote this season if you complete enough appointments. Consult your RDO?
 
CaptainsPlease said:
I thought for Level 7-5 there are usually 4 promotion windows in a season with games carrying over, so it should still be achievable to double-promote this season if you complete enough appointments. Consult your RDO?
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From when I was going 7-5 the windows to apply were start of the season, start of Oct, start of Jan and start of March, so hopefully there should be a favour the RDO can do for you and let you start from the window that's just opened.
 
Samuel said:
While I would agree with you I don't see it as a bad thing, that is just the complaint I have heard from other 5-4 candidates especially now that the nomination is less of a guarantee of being promoted. I hope that in a few years we can look back and how this has affected the current crop of L4s and see a positive outcome, and say that the FA made the right decision.
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Supply and demand thing, when they brought in mid-season promotions they were absolutely desperate for L4 numbers and had been for a few years. When I stepped down from L3 to L5 I was constantly being asked to referee step 5 games. On a given weekend on a particular supply league there were more games refereed by L5s than L4s. The FA were OK themselves as they took all the L4s for step3/4 lines, but the supply league were far from happy so lobbied the FA to sort it out.

So the FA took more L4s, and later brought in mid-season promotions, but the flip side of that is many were nowhere near good / ready enough and have already been reclassified. But now they have too many L4s so can choose to be far pickier about who they take, hence the higher mark required and no mid-season promotions. Averaging 71 on the current performance criteria isn't easy, so in theory anyone promoted should be of a much higher quality than many promoted in recent years.
 
RustyRef said:
Supply and demand thing, when they brought in mid-season promotions they were absolutely desperate for L4 numbers and had been for a few years. When I stepped down from L3 to L5 I was constantly being asked to referee step 5 games. On a given weekend on a particular supply league there were more games refereed by L5s than L4s. The FA were OK themselves as they took all the L4s for step3/4 lines, but the supply league were far from happy so lobbied the FA to sort it out.

So the FA took more L4s, and later brought in mid-season promotions, but the flip side of that is many were nowhere near good / ready enough and have already been reclassified. But now they have too many L4s so can choose to be far pickier about who they take, hence the higher mark required and no mid-season promotions. Averaging 71 on the current performance criteria isn't easy, so in theory anyone promoted should be of a much higher quality than many promoted in recent years.
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Yeah I got my L4 mid season in 21/22 season. At the end of the 20/21 season The FA announced nobody was being promoted 5-4 as some hadn't had the opportunity to meet the criteria but that they 'may consider promotions mid-season for those that had met the criteria'. I think they then decided to do this in October as they were so short of numbers, which isn't really mid-season.
 
Gio said:
Hi guys , just wanted to share this , mainly as might make me feel better!

I was under the impression that I was on game 6 of my 7-6 promotion last weekend after applying and receiving application pack etc.

However got in touch with the super mentor to ask afew questions and he was confused , saying I never got in touch with him when I completed my first 5 games. Therefore none of my games have counted and I need to wait until next window.

He was very supportive but this has knocked me as I have been getting really good feedback and whilst I acknowledge my refereeing is in its infancy , I feel a need to move as at 35 I feel like time is against me when it comes to getting to where I want to be .

Anyways , decided just keep learning and go for promotion in new year .

Cheers guys

Gio
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I don't know who or what a super mentor is, but the requirement for 7 to 6 is to complete the requisite number of games, plus the other requirements for that step, and there is no need to tell anyone which games you do other than letting the Match Day Coach Appointments person know, so they can provide a coach.
 
Everyone will have their own improvement curve, but nobodies trajectory will look much different from that below

1728581259032.png

Simple fact... if you move through the levels too quickly in the early years, theirs a very high risk it's gonna be an unpleasant experience at some point.

Let's say, L4 after 3 years..... the chart above illustrates how likely that referee will fall way short of the experience necessary
I would strongly advise almost everyone against reaching within 5 years of starting out
Beyond Level 4, the gains are increasingly marginal. I would be much more open to a very good L4 progressing quickly through the higher echelons, but I don't think there's enough movement up and down the levels throughout the NLS
There are not enough referees reclassified to make space for potential talent
Escaping L4 will holds promising referees back for many years because it's so hit and miss.
<5% of L4s promoted in a season (two windows) is an absolute blocker. (I'm not thinking about my personal circumstances BTW as I'm 50 years old)
 
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RustyRef said:
Averaging 71 on the current performance criteria isn't easy, so in theory anyone promoted should be of a much higher quality than many promoted in recent years.
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Especially as the marking is based on you being a L4, so the expectation is you are already good enough. Just giving a standard L5 performance will mean that you don't get promotion, you have to show you are better than the quality of the football you are refereeing.

You have to be the best performance on the FOP.
 
Big Cat said:
Everyone will have their own improvement curve, but nobodies trajectory will look much different from that below

View attachment 7648

Simple fact... if you move through the levels too quickly in the early years, theirs a very high risk it's gonna be an unpleasant experience at some point.

Let's say, L4 after 3 years..... the chart above illustrates how likely that referee will fall way short of the experience necessary
I would strongly advise almost everyone against reaching within 5 years of starting out
Beyond Level 4, the gains are increasingly marginal. I would be much more open to a very good L4 progressing quickly through the higher echelons, but I don't think there's enough movement up and down the levels throughout the NLS
There are not enough referees reclassified to make space for potential talent
Escaping L4 will holds promising referees back for many years because it's so hit and miss.
<5% of L4s promoted in a season (two windows) is an absolute blocker. (I'm not thinking about my personal circumstances BTW as I'm 50 years old)
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@Big Cat I actually think the learning curve looks a lot more like the blue line rather that the red line, which is why Elite Refs make so many mistakes that aren't dissimilar to those we all make (after 5 years experience). They just carry those mistakes off in a Cauldron with millions watching on, whereas we get moaned at by a few old men in a Board Room

1728642705997.png
You know you're going mad when you're talking to yourself
 
I agree with the general principle of what can happen if promoted too quickly, though perhaps one of the best Referees on the PL at the moment is Sam Barrett whose rise to elite football has been relatively quick, whereby perhaps if you are good enough then you are old enough. I would accept he is the exception rather than the rule.
 
I hate the wait at this level for x amount of time.

It should be number of games in my opinion.

Somewhat frustrating to just be told. You've met all the criteria and you're qualified for promotion. Wait out.

I personally believe that 6 months would be better served getting experience at a higher level than waiting out. Because in theory once all boxes are ticked you could stop refereeing until the next season.
 
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David G said:
I agree with the general principle of what can happen if promoted too quickly, though perhaps one of the best Referees on the PL at the moment is Sam Barrett whose rise to elite football has been relatively quick, whereby perhaps if you are good enough then you are old enough. I would accept he is the exception rather than the rule.
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Think he's our RA guest speaker next week. I don't tend to go to the SG1 ones (heard one, heard 'em all) but genuinely interested to hear him.
 
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