Fouling own team?
- Thread starter MumRef
- Start date
Can't foul your own team, unless someone can think of a situation where you can??
Your 2nd question, I don't think you should be cautioning a keeper for swearing at his own players. He's allowed to do whatever he wants (within reason, obviously). That would be down to the coach to tell him he shouldn't do that.
Your 2nd question, I don't think you should be cautioning a keeper for swearing at his own players. He's allowed to do whatever he wants (within reason, obviously). That would be down to the coach to tell him he shouldn't do that.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
A player can commit misconduct against a teammate, but fouls are only against an opponent--that's right there in the definitions of the DFK offenses.* I certainly agree that the standard is higher for USB, but there is still a bar that could be crossed. Sounds unlikely as posited in the OP, but could get extreme enough that the R needs to act.
In practical matters, it is far more likely to have send off behavior (OFFINABUS or VC) towards an opponent.
And note that recent changes mean that VC toward a teammate with the ball in play results in a DFK. (As always, misconduct when the ball is not in play never changes the restart.)
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*At the risk of going sideways, there is a level of debate relating to whether PIADM can be "against" a teammate. IMO, the best understanding of PIADM is that it is danger + impact on an opponent. So the danger could be to a teammate but that danger would have to impact the ability of an opponent to play the ball--I'm struggling to think of a good example. Any possible scenario would be quite unlikely.
In practical matters, it is far more likely to have send off behavior (OFFINABUS or VC) towards an opponent.
And note that recent changes mean that VC toward a teammate with the ball in play results in a DFK. (As always, misconduct when the ball is not in play never changes the restart.)
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*At the risk of going sideways, there is a level of debate relating to whether PIADM can be "against" a teammate. IMO, the best understanding of PIADM is that it is danger + impact on an opponent. So the danger could be to a teammate but that danger would have to impact the ability of an opponent to play the ball--I'm struggling to think of a good example. Any possible scenario would be quite unlikely.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
Offences involving a team-mate are unusual, and typically involve violent conduct or similar extreme behaviour.
If the goalkeeper (or any player) uses offensive, insulting or abusive language to anyone (including a team-mate) the referee should deal with it.
This may involve a warning on a mild first occasion, but can result in a dismissal (or some referees will caution for unsporting behaviour)
MumRef
Member
Thank you for this, Josh. I should say that this was an U13 game.
MumRef
Member
Thank you but I'm going to have to look up some of these acronyms!
USB is unsporting behaviour and VC is violent conductThank you but I'm going to have to look up some of these acronyms!
https://refchat.co.uk/threads/abbreviations.12786/Thank you but I'm going to have to look up some of these acronyms!
This is where you can find all the abbreviatons
I had one on Saturday in pretty terrible pitch conditions. Very slippery with quite a few sliding tackles.
One player went in, totally missed the ball and opponent, but managed to take out his team mate. I played advantage, but otherwise would have given a foul.
How would you have given a foul for him taking out his own teammate?
Edit: Yknow, dont worry
I'll just log out and delete my bookmark
one
RefChat Addict
I'll be a little pedantic on this but it's needed, especially for newer referees.
If you deem the language used is offensive, insulting or abusive then you have no option but to send him off. It is very clear in law. A send off is mandatory on OFFINABUS, not optional. If you choose to warn or caution then you have to be clear that you have not deemed it to be offensive, insulting or abusive.
Similarly if a player verbally or otherwise disagrees with you and you think it's dissent you have to caution. If chose not to caution then you have not deemed it as dissent.
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santa sangria
RefChat Addict
More likely, but still rare, is a player using pejorative language (racist, sexist, homophobic etc.) towards a teammate. I think it’s very important to act on this if it happens - and this can’t be a friendly warning. And giving red cards here is very difficult for referees - but you must - it really is the job.
It wasn't for the tackle on his player, but the intent of the tackle on the opponent with the ball. It looked reckless, but because he got it so wrong, there was a reasonable advantage to be played - two players left on the ground and the attacker free with the ball.
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Think the whole fouling your own team mate doesn't fall into fouls, but it does could fall into misconduct and can still be an offence.
Have to be there I suppose, and I can't ever recall it happening in 11/12 years so I wouldn't get to hung up about it.
I'd tend to stay out of inter team arguments etc. It's just looking busy. Obviously anything that falls in the discriminatory language MUST be dealt with and reported appropriately but anything below that threshold I am unlikely to be getting involved in.
I think we are in a world where the laws don't match reality. Players use swear words, and as far as I recall always have everyones feelings are different on choice language and as someone who uses a variety of swear words throughout each day it feels hypocritical of me to send someone off for it.
Of course i have a line, which usually starts at YOU but anything below that not something I'd be looking to concern myself with.
Have to be there I suppose, and I can't ever recall it happening in 11/12 years so I wouldn't get to hung up about it.
I'd tend to stay out of inter team arguments etc. It's just looking busy. Obviously anything that falls in the discriminatory language MUST be dealt with and reported appropriately but anything below that threshold I am unlikely to be getting involved in.
I think we are in a world where the laws don't match reality. Players use swear words, and as far as I recall always have everyones feelings are different on choice language and as someone who uses a variety of swear words throughout each day it feels hypocritical of me to send someone off for it.
Of course i have a line, which usually starts at YOU but anything below that not something I'd be looking to concern myself with.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
I agree with you totally, but I was telling it how it is (in England, and probably elsewhere) - referees, including many on this forum regularly say they would caution for OFFINABUS rather than do the right thing, which is to dismiss. Excuses include club marks, clubs running out of players, matches abandoned because one team goes down to fewer than 7 players, "last week's referee", etc., etc.
The OP mentioned "swearing", which in its mildest sense may not be offensive, insulting or abusive, so in real terms a public warning/reminder would be acceptable.
Agree with this. Being seen as overly busy is to be avoided !
The big difference with inter-team arguments is they are usually quickly diffused by other team members, so no need to get involved in anything below a blatant RC offence. E.g. I can't imagine ever going AA for team mates having a go at each other, although I don't think there is technically anything that says you couldn't do an unsporting caution.
The only RC for this I can remember in 40 years of playing and refereeing was as a player when 2 brothers on the same team decided to have a punch-up in the middle of the pitch. Obvious VC and all the unhappiness directed at the players not the official
I have had to get involved for AA between team mates once. Step 7game and 2 players were gripping each others shirt and pushing and pulling so it was one occasion where I had to get involved..bit it wasn't busy, it was expected.
What punishment did you dish out? Yellow Card each?
And how did the team's respond to it?