This is a good example of where the law should be changed. In Rugby (I think) they would go back for the foul / penalty etc. For some reason in football, we can't go back once we've played an advantage, but this seems to be weighted too heavily in the defences favour in my opinion. You could argue that by delaying and not signalling Advantage too soon, i'm giving the attacking team two opportunities. But I would rather punish the defending team rather than the attackers.
Foul inside penalty area
- Thread starter Romarque
- Start date
Yes you can. Law clearly says that the referee can bring play back if the advantage doesn't accrue.
It says nothing about a signal meaning play can't be brought back.
So you are giving them two bites of the cherry, then ?
If that's the case, why are some refs immediately blowing for a pen, then ?
That's not what I am saying...
You said can't go back once advantage played/signalled which is not the case.
So, in this scenario, why don't us refs always play the advantage, but go back on it and give the pen if need be ?
You can, if the advantage doesnt accrue. But it depends on what definition you are applying to that. If the advantage results in a chance that is better than a penalty, it has accrued, whether it results in a goal or not.
My actual point was just to point out that playing advantage or signalling does not mean it cannot be brought back. The determining factor on that is whether the advantage accrues or not. Player error 99% does not result in play being brought back
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
This is the essence of advantage (which too often gets lost) ^^^
With respect to a PK, the challenges can be as much about managing expectations and players as they are about determining if the opportunity is better than a PK (though that can be hard, too).
Defenders will be upset if there is a delay, a shot, and a PK (regardless of whether the shot was a better chance than a PK).
Attackers will be upset if there is not a goal and the R applies advantage (even when the chance was better than a PK--well, unless it was a complete empty net and a still ball, perhaps).
Defenders will almost always think any shot was better than a PK; attackers will almost always think that the shot was not better than a PK.
It is embarrassing to whistle for a PK a fraction of a section before the ball enters the goal.
That leads to any delay on whistling a PK to generally be very short--just enough to be sure there isn't an instant goal, as waiting much more than that leads to more challenging scenarios and match control issues.
one
RefChat Addict
When to signal advantage or can we bring it back has been flogged to death but here we go again.
Allowing play to continue does not mean playing/applying advantage, it mean anticipating it. This for me is clear in law.
Can you bring play back after signalling? That depends what is your signal for, anticipating advantage or applying it. For me it's the latter, meaning anticipation period is over and as such you should hold your signal until you apply it and once done you can't bring it back.
If the signal was for intent and anticipation then there has to be a second signal for "the wait period" is over.
Allowing play to continue does not mean playing/applying advantage, it mean anticipating it. This for me is clear in law.
Can you bring play back after signalling? That depends what is your signal for, anticipating advantage or applying it. For me it's the latter, meaning anticipation period is over and as such you should hold your signal until you apply it and once done you can't bring it back.
If the signal was for intent and anticipation then there has to be a second signal for "the wait period" is over.
Kes
I'll Decide ...
Advantage for a FK and advantage for a penalty kick may be the same thing in the LOTG book but to the players they certainly aren't. 
It's one where you're unlikely to ever win the argument which is why I always say to never ever play advantage in the PA unless the ball is already rolling into an empty net.
If the player fouled manages to score before I've got that whistle to my lips is the only time I'm not giving the penalty.
It's one where you're unlikely to ever win the argument which is why I always say to never ever play advantage in the PA unless the ball is already rolling into an empty net.
If the player fouled manages to score before I've got that whistle to my lips is the only time I'm not giving the penalty.
one
RefChat Addict
And that is?
one
RefChat Addict
I think my poor wording may have contributed here. By "hold your signal" I mean "hold off on signalling".
Nonetheless, if you are saying after the referee stops signalling s/he can't bring it back then that's good enough for me.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
There have been two schools of thought on the advantage signal. One school says to signal immediately and come back if advantage does not ensue, the other says to wait u til it does ensue. I think some places clearly teach one or the other, and some leave it to referee discretion, which can be dependent on particular situations. IMO, one should never signal advantage in the PA unless the advantage has ensued and there is no going back.
Weirdly I am somewhere in the middle...
1. There is a clear advantage situation I'll signal immediately, if something happens that changes that advantage, within a few a seconds (that is not a player error) or my advantage was not as good as I first thought it can be brought back.
2. Wait and see. Used for things like holding offences, I'm waiting to see if the player can make anything of the situation... I'm not yet playing advantage, but I am not yet calling a foul either. I usually signal this by holding the whistle close to my mouth before either blowing it or signalling an advantage. But caveat that if from when I apply advantage (ie signal it) it doesn't ensue within a few seconds I can bring play back for the original foul.
Fully agree with your last point.
In England it has always been taught to signal straight away and bring it back if necessary. The argument for this approach is the fouled player might just think you have missed it and exact their own revenge, and by signalling it with arms and voice they will know you have actually seen it.
Once you get to level 3, as I found to my cost, this seems to change and the expectation is that you don't signal until the advantage has actually accrued. I got pulled up a few times by observers for going back for a free kick after signalling advantage, and it took me a full season to get out of the practice.
Once you get to level 3, as I found to my cost, this seems to change and the expectation is that you don't signal until the advantage has actually accrued. I got pulled up a few times by observers for going back for a free kick after signalling advantage, and it took me a full season to get out of the practice.
Just thought of this thread. Was reffing one of premier leagues older academy sides yesterday when one of their strikers who had been trying his hardest to get a penalty the full match (massive physical lad, who turns to jelly on contact) on the 85th minute, gets contact in the box, falls over screaming, I heard the contact and though yup that's a penalty, just, so I blew the whistle.
1 seconds later ball smashes into the net.
What nightmares are made of.
Tunnel visioned on the player. Absolute worst feeling ever having to explain to the players that because I blew the whistle it has to be a penalty as the defence had switched off.
1 seconds later ball smashes into the net.
What nightmares are made of.
Tunnel visioned on the player. Absolute worst feeling ever having to explain to the players that because I blew the whistle it has to be a penalty as the defence had switched off.
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Yes, done that
It’s how we learn!On the timing, I’ve been taught to avoid at all costs signalling advantage then coming back for the FK. It doesn’t present well, is bad for match control and makes it look like you are indecisive (even if you are reacting well to events).
So, I always try to wait. In all this, positioning is key to successfully applying advantage. If you are not too close and have a good angle with most of the players in view it is much easier to process.
I usually signal advantage early and if I have to bring it back I usually don't have a problem (I scream advantage while hand signalling, if the player is immediately tackled I pull it back, and I just say advantage didn't materialise, no one seems to have a problem with it so far). However, I am learning, so I wouldn't be surprised to hear this is wrong.
I don't mind delaying a decision (as a lot of the time you need a few seconds to take the information overload in. I just find you invite the "ref how can you give that when you didn't see it" or "you are just giving that because they shouted" as it might look like you are reacting to the players calls rather than making your own decision. Hence my eagerness to blow early (which is most of the time the worst thing to do).
I don't mind delaying a decision (as a lot of the time you need a few seconds to take the information overload in. I just find you invite the "ref how can you give that when you didn't see it" or "you are just giving that because they shouted" as it might look like you are reacting to the players calls rather than making your own decision. Hence my eagerness to blow early (which is most of the time the worst thing to do).
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
If you are going to be worried by players' shouts you will never make a decision!
Do what works for you.