The Ref Stop

First match - food for thought :)

kasharic

kasharic

New Member
Level 9 Referee
Hi all.
I completed my first match in charge this afternoon, and wanted to share my experience and hopefully get some feedback from you :)
Overall, it wasn't a complete disaster, but they could certainly see that I was new, and making some basic rookie errors. The immediate issues that arose:

1. Offsides - having no ARs, I was unable to give offsides (unless it was blatant - I gave one in the second half). I did try to explain this (to the home team mainly), but I wonder how you guys cope not having any ARs? Looking back, I wonder (just judging from what I could hear between the players), if the away side were playing up to this, and looked to take advantage of me not being able to give offsides?

2. Communication. The ball goes out for throw/corner. Do you whistle, or vocalise your decisions e.g. 'red throw', or just signal with arms? How do you achieve consistency with communication?

3. Again not having an AR, how do you manage judging if ball goes out of play or not? I think, on reflection, my positioning could have been better (i.e. closer?).

4. 'How much time left, ref?' - surprised how often I heard this, at the end of each half :)

5. Only after awarding a free kick within shooting distance, did I then become aware that I did not know how to measure the required 10 yards - cue much hilarity :)

6. I did show one red for a dangerous tackle, but unlike the yellows I did not stop to get the player's name - correct? If so, how do I get the name?

Apologies for the long ramble - I wanted to get this down in writing whilst it was still fresh in my mind :) Many thanks for reading, and any feedback or advice you have :)

Rich.
 
The Ref Stop
1 Why no assistants? Each club should provide one if none appointed! Depending on where you are whether they can give off sides though.
2 Only whistle when you need to.
Arm and "red throw" especially early in each half.
3 if you can see it give it, if not, its not out of play. Club assistants can do this.
4 me too, every match.
5 pace it out......
6 major error. Stop play, take players name etc, red card and dismiss, restart. Suggest you ring the manager?

First match complete, some learning points but otherwise well done.
 
1. I've had one match where the away team did not have an assistent referee. So I called them over at the beginning of the match and told them that it's fine. I can do the running, but I accept no complains whatsoever. For me, it was more or less guessing whether it was offside or not, but no-one dares complain. :)
2. Do what fits you best. Do you like to hear your own voice? But always use your arms to signal. Every situation differs. I only signal, and when some players are still confused, I vocalise it. Indeed whistle when it's needed. For example when players are unsure whether the ball was over the line or not.
3. You should have AR's. And when you don't, it of course would be great if you have the stamina to get close on every situation, if not, look at 1.
4. Get used to it :) Just shout the remaining time very loudly first time someone asks. And if it annoys you, act like you didn't hear :)
5. Nine normal steps, maybe just a bit bigger. One step = 1 meter. So 9.15 meters is just around 9 steps.
6. Not sure, not from the UK. I don't know how things are handled.
 
kasharic said:
Hi all.
I completed my first match in charge this afternoon, and wanted to share my experience and hopefully get some feedback from you :)
Overall, it wasn't a complete disaster, but they could certainly see that I was new, and making some basic rookie errors. The immediate issues that arose:

1. Offsides - having no ARs, I was unable to give offsides (unless it was blatant - I gave one in the second half). I did try to explain this (to the home team mainly), but I wonder how you guys cope not having any ARs? Looking back, I wonder (just judging from what I could hear between the players), if the away side were playing up to this, and looked to take advantage of me not being able to give offsides?

2. Communication. The ball goes out for throw/corner. Do you whistle, or vocalise your decisions e.g. 'red throw', or just signal with arms? How do you achieve consistency with communication?

3. Again not having an AR, how do you manage judging if ball goes out of play or not? I think, on reflection, my positioning could have been better (i.e. closer?).

4. 'How much time left, ref?' - surprised how often I heard this, at the end of each half :)

5. Only after awarding a free kick within shooting distance, did I then become aware that I did not know how to measure the required 10 yards - cue much hilarity :)

6. I did show one red for a dangerous tackle, but unlike the yellows I did not stop to get the player's name - correct? If so, how do I get the name?

Apologies for the long ramble - I wanted to get this down in writing whilst it was still fresh in my mind :) Many thanks for reading, and any feedback or advice you have :)

Rich.
Click to expand...
OK I'll play. First up, well done. Just the fact that want to get some feedback is great.

1/ Good question. I am in another country. We do use CARs so we have a lot of games, including observed with no ARs. I go 'balls out' to get as long and wide a diagonal as possible to give me a better chance of judging offside. I have been instructed to use these games to practice the diagonal. Therefore I sacrifice accuracy on ball in/out in the areas where an AR would usually be.

Don't tell the players you cannot give offsides - because that will influence their play and try to game you. Don't guess. Do try to get into good positions. Do tell them not to stand there appealing. Tell them to play to the whistle. If they complain, I tell them that they just need to get promoted (or pay to join the semi pro leagues) and they will get ARs!

2/ For ball in/out. Always signal with the arms (rare exception for a really obvious GK if you have to sprint). Use the whistle if there is confusion, two people try to take the same throw, and especially if the ball is just out and someone is trying to play on. Saying the decision can help if there are appeals from both sides, or if two players on the same side disagree. It helps match control, shows you are active.

3/ You can't be everywhere. As above, in our region we are told to use non-AR games to practice the diagonal, therefore I sacrifice some weak zone accuracy. A wider diagonal helps. Getting closer to the goal line helps if there is a lot of wing play. Don't be afraid of continuing your movement into the penalty area. Start with by-the-book positions at corners, but sometimes e.g. go to the far goal line. Focus on the basics though. Try to use the diagonal but also move to anticipate drop zones (where the ball will land and be competed for). Common sense though - if the whole game is taking place 5m from the far corner, you should get there ;)

4/ Some people don't like to do it but I am perfectly happy to tell players the time whenever it is asked. I shout it loud so everyone can hear. If there is added time I shout it very loud so everyone can hear. I think this is common sense and fair, even if the players have been pi**ing me off;)

5/ It's going to be 9/10/11 strides. It's 9 including a last longer one for me. Best way to test is with the centre circle and penalty spot. Don't totally trust either depending on the pitch but it's something.

6/ You have to ask for the name. For fouls with contact and cards get used to thinking about the 1-2-3: careless->reckless (YC)->excessive force/endangering the safety of an opponent (RC). In what way was the tackle dangerous, how were other cards in the game?

And remember, if you give the players a hundred quid for every one of your mistakes, and take one for every one of their mistakes, you are still going to come out ahead!
 
Hi Kasharik,
Good to see you looking for advice after your game.

1) I have experience at this - the region where I've spent most of my refereeing didn't even use club AR's, so I was often by myself. Now, this WILL change your positioning. And that's fine. You're no longer looking 'through' the ball to an AR - you can be a bit more free. So, for things like ceremonial free kicks around the box, consider standing in line with the 2nd last defender. Yes, this compromises your position to see some other things, but positioning is about considering what situational is likely to arise, what you can see from what position, and the impact that is likely to have. As for general play - you need to be glancing up the field a lot. It's tough having to balance trying to see where the attackers are the moment the ball is kicked, with not missing any slightly late challenge. So if you try to get yourself into a position where you have both the ball carrier and the offside line at least in your peripheral vision that's ideal. May mean getting wide.

And as you're pre-empting play, sometimes you may wish to get further upfield than you would with AR's to be closer to that offside line.

I find that I can sort of run my eyes left and right to draw an imaginary line across the field and this will help with offside. But you're not going to get them all correct.

But I'll disagree with one thing - it doesn't have to be blatant for you to call it. You just need to be certain. Being certain of an offence, and an offence being blatant, are different things. With time you can still be capable of calling some relatively close offsides without AR's.

2) Always use your arms, never use your whistle for these ones unless play is continuing and you need to tell players to stop play. Verbalising isn't really needed - though saying 'red throw' can help if you've had a moment of forgetting who is going which way! Can be handy with young players in particular who may not have learned to look for your signal

3) You're going to get this one wrong sometimes. Here's a thing - the ball 'looks like' it's out well before it IS out.

Do a test for yourself. Take a ball down to a field (if you don't have one, borrow one from a team for a couple of minutes before a game). Put the ball on the line, 50% out. Run back 10, 20, 40 yards, see what it looks like. Do it again, 70% out. then 80%. Then 95%. Then 100%, but only by the slimmest margin. You'll see there's quite a lot of grass you can see between line and ball before it's actually out.

This is still impossible to be 100% correct on without AR's. What it means is that getting wide can help - throws on the line with the ball likely to go down the line? Sometimes standing on the line near where play is headed can help (but don't get in their way to get there!). Trailing a fast counter that's running down the wing? Maybe you want to run closer to the line to trail them. It means you're in a slightly poorer position for fouls, but a vastly superior position for ball in/out of play. All about considering what's likely to happen, how significant it is, and where you need to be to see it.

For corner kicks, consider whether you should be on the field near the edge of the PA, or whether in these cases you should be off the field, near the edge of the goal area, on the side the ball is coming from. Means you can see ball in/out - and even offside - quite clearly, does mean you compromise your position if play goes to the far side of goals or if there is a fast counter (I think the fast counter isn't a big problem as you can run after it anyway, and usually these are either clean or a foul here is quite blatant). I swear by it, others on here hate it.

5) Practice by stepping from the kick-off mark to the edge of the centre circle. Do it once you've warmed up - because your stride is shorter with cold muscles.
 
Wow thank you all for your excellent and informative advice - some wonderful tips which I'll be sure to take into my next match :) Positioning and signalling will be a big focus of improvement for me going forward, taking on board all of your advice. One quick question which popped into my head: if there's a tackle, or incident, which results in shouts for a free-kick/foul/handball etc , which you don't think is a foul, how do you indicate play-on? Just refrain from blowing your whistle, with a shake of the head, or do you vocalise "no foul", or hand signal?
Thanks again everyone :)
Rich.
 
santa sangria said:
It's going to be 9/10/11 strides. It's 9 including a last longer one for me. Best way to test is with the centre circle and penalty spot. Don't totally trust either depending on the pitch but it's something.
Click to expand...
To be clear, Santa is talking about it being ten yards from the penalty mark to the top of the arc outside the area, NOT from the penalty mark to the goal! :)
 
kasharic said:
Wow thank you all for your excellent and informative advice - some wonderful tips which I'll be sure to take into my next match :) Positioning and signalling will be a big focus of improvement for me going forward, taking on board all of your advice. One quick question which popped into my head: if there's a tackle, or incident, which results in shouts for a free-kick/foul/handball etc , which you don't think is a foul, how do you indicate play-on? Just refrain from blowing your whistle, with a shake of the head, or do you vocalise "no foul", or hand signal?
Thanks again everyone :)
Rich.
Click to expand...

Personal preference really - you'll experiment with some things. Sometimes a response is needed as it lets players know you've seen it and you've made a decision, whereas no response may look like you have no idea. But you don't want to respond to every appeal either - and some refs suggest that responding to an appeal can open yourself up to argument.

All of the things you've said can work. A simple 'no....' and a shake of the head can work if one or two players are looking at you. Sometimes you need to explain it. For an appeal for accidental? "ACCIDENTAL!!!" gets the message across. Another foul where it was all ball? Say so! "No! All ball!!"

If it's a particularly big incident - such as a tight penalty shout - then a 'grass cutting motion (that is, palms flat down, both arms come across your body to directly out to the side) along with a clear shout of "No!!" works.

Nothing there, no foul, keep playing, all work. Minor foul / offside infringement and ball in keeper's hands? "I've seen it, ball in your hands keeper, keep playing"

Just be careful to only say the words "play on" in an advantage situation.

Padfoot said:
Seems some work needs to be done on the basic course offered in South Wales......
Click to expand...

Looks like we still need some work on you not being an a$$ as well. But new ref comes in and you immediately make disparaging remarks to pick on them and make yourself feel big? Completely predictable. This is tired old behaviour from yourself and we're all sick of it. Either contribute or don't bother posting.
 
Last edited:
CapnBloodbeard said:
Looks like we still need some work on you not being an a$$ as well. But new ref comes in and you immediately make disparaging remarks to pick on them and make yourself feel big? Completely predictable. This is tired old behaviour from yourself and we're all sick of it. Either contribute or don't bother posting.
Click to expand...

You really are dense, aren't you?

I haven't made any criticism of the OP.....I have, quite fairly, questioned the quality of the training that the OP received as the issues they have raised should have been covered in a basic referees course.
If the OP wasn't given the necessary guidance and training that has led to the basic errors made in their first game, it would be grossly unfair of someone to criticise them......hence the TOTAL LACK OF ANY JUDGMENT, CRITICISM OR OTHER COMMENT TOWARDS THEIR PERFORMANCE.

Thought I'd better highlight the last part because you clearly missed it the first time around.

When do the schools go back?
 
Thanks again for all your advice - thanks CapnBloodBeard too for your advice on communicating my decisions to the players - I'll definitely take this advice into my next match - it's very reassuring to be able to get direct answers to my questions and concerns on this forum - invaluable :)
 
The asking 'how long left ' question is an interesting one. Handle this badly and your match control can go out of the window very quickly ( bitter experience). You are being asked for a myriad of reasons and to assume it's about just winding you up is a mistake. I will always answer politely and will give an approximation to the nearest 5. I.e. Last 5, 20 gone etc. If you are too specific it can lead to issues with time added on. Again bitter experience teaches these lessons

The 10 yards thing is interesting . There are lots of marks on the field to help us (centre circle , penalty spot to arc, the goal (8yds) ) but it is surprising how often we are woefully short. Two games observed last week where a foul was given on the edge of the penalty area (L4 & 3 in middle) and both walls were a good yard in front of the penalty spot, no more than 7 yards from the kick. Both free kicks were scored, so there was no issue- but it could have been different had the wall blocked them.

I take 7 strides and 2 small steps. That gets me to near enough 10 yards so as not to be be questioned too much. But I am 6'1" - find what works for you- the centre circle is the perfect place - you can be discreet !
 
One tip for the 'How Long Ref' comment!!!!! Give them the right countdown time left during the 90 minutes, even offer your watch as a visible sign. However, be less generous with the same countdown progress in extra time situations, 'Full Time' is when you blow the whistle and not the exact second when the clock strikes the exact second!!! Make time for time wasting and subs, its fair then to both teams that you have played the correct length of a game!!
 
I once got told that you should always try and count 10 paces in case players count your steps. There's a knack to learning how big a stride you personally need to take in order to have each pace be about a yard, and I'm sure for some people it's nearly impossible to have a step = a yard. But if a player picks up on the fact you're only taking 9 paces, that's potentially going to cause an issue.

It also genuinely never occurred to me that "how long ref?" might be designed to annoy me. I find it bizarre when I'm an AR on the sideline and managers are asking me, given they're allowed to wear a watch. But players don't have any other means of knowing and might need to adjust their tactics or workrate as a result, so I have no real problem answering. Just be a little vague and don't engage in arguments if their perception is off - you only legitimise complaints by doing so.
 
I genuinely think there's no good reason at all to be taking issue with players asking how long. The only thing that can come of it is that you just look really arrogant and frustrate the players. Just respond. In the final few minutes I start getting a bit vague. This just seems like a really stupid fight to be picking.

I agree with your point about ten paces. When I started we were taught to avoid pacing out if you could accurately estimate it visually - the thought is that it looked more professional.
Funny thing is, doing this seems to really upset players. Stupid really, I mean, what does taking 10 steps prove? 10 steps can be any distance - yet apparently the worst crime in the world is not taking 10 steps to set a wall!!! People are weird....:confused:

So even though I could accurately visually estimate it, I went back to stepping it out. It really did stop a lot of arguments.

Where it gets hilarious is when you're using field markings. Foul right on the edge of the D? Defence will invariable go ballistic when you plant them on the penalty spot. Or halfway between the penalty spot and the GA if it's right on the edge of the GA. Apparently maths also isn't a strong point of the players :D

(actually, that level of stupidity really does make me die a little inside.....)
 
Ooh I don't like the idea of rounding the time remaining to the nearest 5. Starts to seem like you are going to massage the clock.

About 18 left, 10 plus added time, 3 minutes added time. Always polite, always willing, and I always say the added time on the 90. I am confident enough to handle any stoppages or time wasting in added time when it comes - with e.g. Clear point at the watch.
 
santa sangria said:
Ooh I don't like the idea of rounding the time remaining to the nearest 5. Starts to seem like you are going to massage the clock.

About 18 left, 10 plus added time, 3 minutes added time. Always polite, always willing, and I always say the added time on the 90. I am confident enough to handle any stoppages or time wasting in added time when it comes - with e.g. Clear point at the watch.
Click to expand...
Nearest 5 when there are more than 15 minutes left, round up (ie. if watch says 11.10 left, I'll say 12) below that. And I always quote times "all-in".
 
santa sangria said:
Why?
(Ref, a minute ago you said 25, now it's 20?)
Click to expand...
Why? Because my watches count up and I can't do maths quickly enough! :p

In reality, yes, you do get that. And you simply respond "it wasn't a minute ago, it was 5". You're the one with a watch, they're just guessing - remind them of that and you don't have a problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top