Field conditions - dry weather
- Thread starter JD1
- Start date
Time for Football clubs to invest in 4G pitches where applicable?
Do you know how much they cost?!
Indeed, in the London area you aren't getting change from £1.1 million to install a new 3G pitch, that figure comes from Sport England. Might be cheaper in other areas of the country, but not by a massive amount. Then you have the annual maintenance cost which they estimate at 3% of the install cost. Then it has to be professionally inspected every 3 years, and in most cases some kind of repairs are needed.
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… and x % for future proofing, whereby depending upon the amount of usage, the anticipated life of a 3G has imo been shortened from what the makers originally thought would be the case (knowingly or unknowingly!!!).
True but personally this is where i think regardless where the clubs are in the country they need to start thinking smarter than harder. There is a facility near me which host close to 10 teams (including juniors and reserves) across 3 pitches. It did mean some teams merging in the local areas however that has also kept some leagues going as a lot were folding due to lack of teams. Now they have reserve sides and almost guaranteed football every week
But who paid for that facility? 90% of grass roots teams in England play on grass pitches, it just isn't practical for all teams to use 3G. To use the most obvious example, there are 58 grass 11-a-side pitches at Hackney Marshes and they are used all weekend, to convert all of those pitches to 3G would cost £50 million+.
In this case it was a mixture of grants (Football Foundation, Local County FA, and Local council along with a university for 1 of the pitches). Although it might not be practical in all occasions, it could open up other opportunities, when the quote for £50million is circling, it sounds a lot but in this transfer window that is often a fee for 1 player. We had both Rogers and Anderson being transferred for potentially 4 x that combined. Although some money does come through from the Football Foundation which is great, realistically is it enough?
It might not be the case that it has to be enforced but if you looked at supply leagues and below, it would be interesting in a poll if you asked them how many would want to be playing on that type of surface who would take the option up if the funding was available. There are teams in the supply league that I AR on that have said playing on "grass" pitches in pre-season led to one team getting 4 ACL/MCL injuries before the season had started. There was also an cancellation of a match at a NCEL game, 3 fixtures in due to the pitch being too dry. This also helps mid season with less cancellations because of dangerous surfaces including flooding etc.
One of the more inspiring stories from the football foundation grants is based around Myra Shay in Bradford, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bradford-west-yorkshire-68693082 due to the Football foundation providing a lot of funds along with other grants, the facility which cost a total of £2million for the pitch, stands, changing facilities, and catering, it is one of the best in the league, they host 2 sides in the Northern Counties East League (supply) along with a junior set-up, 1 tier 3 team of the women's football pyramid along with hosting vets and a Sunday morning football side and other community teams for finals etc when the pitch is available. It has regenerated the area but with the amount being thrown around football these days, professional clubs could easily help out junior clubs or supply clubs in a similar fashion if not just to use the facility as a scouting area for their academies. I think this is a wider conversation, although I am not self-employed, a lot are within lower league football and you just hope they are covered for injuries. An ACL injury is a year out of football or could career ending. A wider topic to be discussed within Leagues and other set-ups.
Funding from the foundation is not likely to ever be enough, but is all that can be expected. It’s currently funding all the replacement of concrete/unsafe perimeter walls etc
The EFL have been trying for years to get the EPL to give them a greater cut of profits and are still no closer. Clubs at the top level are hammering their own supporters at the moment, increasing ticket prices, moving season ticket holders from seats they have had for decades to accommodate more hospitality seating, scrapping concession prices, etc. There is no way on earth they would fund grass roots 3G pitches as football at that level isn't just about sport any more, it is a business and businesses don't tend to give money away.
Surely grass roots football in countries that have been (historically) hotter/drier than the UK have found a way around this? 
I'm thinking Spain, Portugal, Turkey etc.
The above is more of a question than a statement since I actually have no idea but if this hot dry weather persists every year for the foreseeable then (finance issues aside) it's looking like the death knell for English grass pitch football? For football at the top to survive, grass roots players would have to come only via recognised "academies" with the artificial facilities already in place and anybody else that fell outside that ability bracket just wouldn't be able to play for 2 or 3 months of a season?
I'm thinking Spain, Portugal, Turkey etc.
The above is more of a question than a statement since I actually have no idea but if this hot dry weather persists every year for the foreseeable then (finance issues aside) it's looking like the death knell for English grass pitch football? For football at the top to survive, grass roots players would have to come only via recognised "academies" with the artificial facilities already in place and anybody else that fell outside that ability bracket just wouldn't be able to play for 2 or 3 months of a season?
Along with 3G pitches, desalination in Spain & Portugal & some new projects along similar lines have started in Turkey. It needs to happen here, along with some new reservoirs.Surely grass roots football in countries that have been (historically) hotter/drier than the UK have found a way around this?
I'm thinking Spain, Portugal, Turkey etc.
The above is more of a question than a statement since I actually have no idea but if this hot dry weather persists every year for the foreseeable then (finance issues aside) it's looking like the death knell for English grass pitch football? For football at the top to survive, grass roots players would have to come only via recognised "academies" with the artificial facilities already in place and anybody else that fell outside that ability bracket just wouldn't be able to play for 2 or 3 months of a season?
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Just doing a Google search so the answer can't be exact but question asked "Spain non league football how many teams play on synthetic pitches"Surely grass roots football in countries that have been (historically) hotter/drier than the UK have found a way around this?
I'm thinking Spain, Portugal, Turkey etc.
The above is more of a question than a statement since I actually have no idea but if this hot dry weather persists every year for the foreseeable then (finance issues aside) it's looking like the death knell for English grass pitch football? For football at the top to survive, grass roots players would have to come only via recognised "academies" with the artificial facilities already in place and anybody else that fell outside that ability bracket just wouldn't be able to play for 2 or 3 months of a season?
Answer given - The vast majority—an estimated 70% to 80%—of non-league and regional amateur football teams in Spain play on synthetic or artificial turf pitches.
Total Infrastructure: Spain has over 10,000 to 15,000 registered artificial turf sports installations, which overwhelmingly serve the semi-professional RFEF divisions (Segunda and Tercera Federación) and local amateur regional tier
Portugal doesn't have a count such as above but does say they are in large use. With The FA, estimates indicate that over 100 to nearly 150 clubs across the top tiers of the National League System (Steps 1–6) use artificial surfaces. I think that will be meaning 600 to 700 clubs nationally.
There is that, the richer clubs could provide facilities in their areas as feeders to the academies, for example if you had a Professional club in the local catchment area, if they paid for the set-up of synthetic surfaces with juniors using it first, the 3pm kick offs still could go ahead. It could be a way for scouts to remotely monitor players before bringing them under the formal academy system.Surely grass roots football in countries that have been (historically) hotter/drier than the UK have found a way around this?
I'm thinking Spain, Portugal, Turkey etc.
The above is more of a question than a statement since I actually have no idea but if this hot dry weather persists every year for the foreseeable then (finance issues aside) it's looking like the death knell for English grass pitch football? For football at the top to survive, grass roots players would have to come only via recognised "academies" with the artificial facilities already in place and anybody else that fell outside that ability bracket just wouldn't be able to play for 2 or 3 months of a season?
I get that, but where does that leave the rest of our grass roots players?
The above would suggest that grass roots football served only to exist as a pathway for "exceptional" players to progress whilst the rest effectively fall by the wayside.
If the right sharing agreement was in place it could work but would need a lot of collaboration in the 1st place which probably wouldn't work either as people don't have time for that. The grassroots game if that is 2pm on a Saturday afternoon or 11am on a Sunday morning has been in decline for a number of years, the amount of teams that have folded due to unable to get the numbers and then that has ultimately meant the leagues have struggled so have folded and merged into wider league, which then causes a problem with travel, which never used to be a problem. I can see more turning to casual mid-week 5 a-side leagues, I hope I am wrong of course but it's difficult to expect players to give up a night for training and at least 1/2 a day on a weekend for a match week in week out. When they could go for a 40 minute kick about with the mates "cage-style". Although the mid-week centres like Power League do offer a good rate for refs but most aren't qualified, they create their own versions of rules to adapt the Laws of the game. Personally I won't do them but It might be worth looking at that with counties and getting them under a Futsal style set of Laws and which will then include them under the Grassroots players.
3G pitches wouldn't help with the number of teams disappearing as they are much more expensive to hire than grass pitches. Its over £200 to book a 3G pitch in London for a 90 minute 11-a-side game, grass pitches can be half that amount.
Naturally i can only comment about the area I know and yes there is a difference in price here too. But it depends on who owns the pitch/ground, if you as a club own the ground cost isn’t much different