And so that makes it right?! I appreciate I haven't reffed PL games and am not the standard he was, but doesn't mean making up phantom fouls to even out decisions is right. That frankly is shocking on any level, especially high profile matches and no wonder players have such disdain for referees if that happens.
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- Thread starter Harey
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Any experienced referee would advise on finding a foul to correct a mistaken corner award
The Footballing Gods have long since decreed such an act as redeeming and disciples dressed as referees are blessed with everlasting Match Control
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
I certainly won’t invent offences. If I think I might have made a mistake I will probably apologise at the time or later - making sure it’s in public for plenty of players so not insider info - “if I got that wrong, I’m sorry”...
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
There’s also a line I learnt on here that I think really works: “Sometimes we see different things” or similar
Ask yourself this. If you give a defensive free kick for a soft foul at a corner that should have been a goal kick will anyone even remember that at the end of the game? Of course they won't, whereas if you wrongly give the corner and they score from it you will very much be remembered.
It happens at all levels, anyone who thinks it doesn't can't watch a lot of live football.
It happens at all levels, anyone who thinks it doesn't can't watch a lot of live football.
Justylove
RefChat Addict
I also think that there are offences of varying severity that happen on every corner kick, so you’re just looking a little harder for them, rather than inventing one!
I love your level of indignation. You might want to save some for something that is really important
We have to look at where football is as a game. Diving, play acting, dissent etc. If we had a 100% honest game where respect for officials was absolute and an atmosphere where mistakes from officials are accepted then I'd agree that it would be wrong to give fouls to right previous wrongs.
But football isn't in that place, you will get a mountain of crap if a goal is scored and you've got to be streetwise enough to look after yourself as well as the players. Give the foul, jog away, move on. 30 seconds after the event no one will care about a defensive free kick.
But football isn't in that place, you will get a mountain of crap if a goal is scored and you've got to be streetwise enough to look after yourself as well as the players. Give the foul, jog away, move on. 30 seconds after the event no one will care about a defensive free kick.
one
RefChat Addict
I think the way it was put/worded that mislead @TSHudson. There are contacts in the game all the time and you adjust the level of tolerance you accept for what is and is not careless according to temperature of the game for game management purposes. It is a standard game management technique. They want to play, accept your calls and get on with the game, you let 50-50's or even 60-40's go. The game is very tense and they are at each other's throats, you stop the game at every hint of a foul. The suggestion is to apply the same technique for the OP.
Personally I would only do it if I realise a mistake after the game has restated. Before the restart, admit to your mistake, aplogise and change the restart.
Personally I would only do it if I realise a mistake after the game has restated. Before the restart, admit to your mistake, aplogise and change the restart.
Not sure I was mislead, I think it was clear what was being said, especially with the doubling down citing Mr Elleray! I completely agree that if you realise you've given a corner in error (although not sure how you would realise that with 100% certainty vs having a doubt?!), blowing for an actual defensive foul you would previously let go (everyone fouling everyone) is a good idea. But I just can't agree it's acceptable to make up a phantom foul if there isn't one, especially as advice to a new referee.
Jtpetherick1
Well-Known Member
Not nearly as bad as the recommendation that you go and discuss something like a corner with a CAR who has obviously got a better view.
Would you say that to the Premier League referee that said exactly that at one of our RA meetings?
Well you're assuming they have a better view and the OP clearly shows there is not clarity between them. So absolutely there should be communication to understand why they both have a different point of view rather than assuming one of you is right and then having to make up a phantom decision to rectify it. Seems like you're arguing against a very important part of the game, communication
Jtpetherick1
Well-Known Member
But this isn't a subjective decision. Like the ball in/out of play and (usually) offside, this is an objective call and so it's not 'point of view'. It literally comes down to who is in the best position to assess a FACT. If the CAR is in a better position to see who the ball came off last than you are (you will know) then go with him. If not, then it's your call.
How would the conversation go? 'It came off blue last.' 'Oh, really? I thought the last touch was red.' So you've learned what exactly? Most pointless conversation ever and shows no confidence at all from you.
Haha that is nonsense. It shows that you’re confident enough to discuss things and get the right decision. On one occasion, corner comes in defender and attacker contest, ball goes out. CAR immediately flags for goal kick, but I think it’s a corner. Go over, CAR missed a second touch off defenders head and thought attacker headed it out. Easily resolved, correct decision given. Another occasion, ball is headed down and out by attacker, I signal goal kick, CAR signals corner. Across I go, I’ve missed a small brush off defenders leg as ball is headed down. Easily resolved, correct decision given. If I’d been “confident” he had it right or I did, the incorrect decisions would’ve been given. But for the sake of a 15 second conversation, the right call was made.
But to be clear, you’re actively arguing against communication between the referee and assistants?
But to be clear, you’re actively arguing against communication between the referee and assistants?
Justylove
RefChat Addict
Maybe with NARS you could do this, or use an approach in agreed in your pre match, often a surreptitious agitation below waist level.
With CAR'S you'll often be lucky to have someone who is within 10 yards of play...
Jtpetherick1
Well-Known Member
Well to start with - no, I'm not. I'm actively arguing against completely pointless communication that tells you nothing you couldn't have worked out for yourself. If I've got CARs I'll go with them unless I'm in a better position in which case I'll make my decision and shout for all (including the CAR) to hear: 'I'm in a better position and I've seen x'. If I'm with NARs we discuss whose area is whose on the pitch but if they're 100% certain then to flag and I'll go with them.
In the first situation you gave - the CAR missed something you saw. The purpose of the conversation being? You were clearly in a better position (if (s)he didn't see something that you could) so what were you hoping to hear?
In the second - (s)he's in the better position. So why chat? Plus, if I've got an AR in a better position than me I'd sure as hell not be signalling before (s)he has because then I could avoid this sort of thing.
Incidentally, I notice you've written elsewhere that in five years of refereeing you've only had 2 or 3 bad games. In which case I'd suggest contacting FIFA because you need to be on the plane to the next World Cup.
My basic advice to a ref fresh outa ref's school would be, 'don't swim against the tide'. Despite a strong rip current, you're admirably drowning alone without heeding any life saving advice
I know what you're saying, but you're missing the nuance of expertise herein
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santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Calm down chief, cut the guy some slack, stay polite