Feedback on two issues/errors

[Harey]

Hi,

Only now 15 games into refereeing, and 10 since qualifying in April this year. Had a U16 game, which I think I made two errors! I would be keen for some experienced feedback:

1. Ball comes over to edge of box and goal line, I am thinking initially this is a goal kick. However I am surprised as striker protects the ball going out over goal line, with defender trying hard to stop it. Ball goes over line, and club linesman, also points to corner (against his own team) so I am now thinking must be a corner then. Blow for corner, and complaints break lose from defending team, and strikers are running back to halfway line. So I correct my decision to a goal kick. Got some understandable stick from manager ("make your mind up ref"). I felt it was right to correct the decision straight away, and avoid a goal from the corner causing more issues. So for advice, would others recommend sticking with decision to show confidence, or correcting to the now probably right decision?
2. After two serious injuries, we are now in the 12th minute of injury time, with only a 60 seconds to play. Attacking player accidentally trips opponent, and ball goes out for a throw. Attacking player picks up ball thinking it's his throw, not a foul against him. He does complain, and I don't catch it completely (something like "for gods sake"), and throws ball down when he realises. I speak to him while defending team setting up for free kick and say to calm down, and he apologises. However one player (claiming to be a ref also) says I should sin bin him for decent. Who was right?

Thanks
Chris

 

[Brian Hamilton]

1) If the players give you clues like they did with their body positions and the club assistant gives it, then deflect the attention to the club assistant. If you're still convinced it's a goal kick after giving the corner kick, then "see" a push and award a defensive free kick once the corner is taken.
2) It's up to you how deal with a player protest like that. You chose to speak to the player and that seems to have been sufficient. You have done something. The worst thing is to do nothing. As for the player-ref, you'll encounter a few of those in football. It's usually ********.

Well done for reflecting on these incidents and don't worry too much about them. Learn from them and move on.

 

[Mintyref]

1 nothing wrong with changing your mind but why not slow your decision and glance around first. You may then get it right first time.
2 your decision, not dissent for me.

 

[Harey]

Well done for reflecting on these incidents and don't worry too much about them. Learn from them and move on.

Thanks Brian, I am keen to improve, so didn't want to just sit on the events without getting advice for improving next time.

I like @Mintyref idea to pause before issuing the call, as it would have seen the players reset back for a goal kick.

 

[PinnerPaul]

Thanks Brian, I am keen to improve, so didn't want to just sit on the events without getting advice for improving next time.

I like @Mintyref idea to pause before issuing the call, as it would have seen the players reset back for a goal kick.

On the delay thing - its something that works at all levels - you will see it at the top if you look.

 

[Harey]

Thanks. The more I’ve thought about it, the more it makes complete sense

 

[PinnerPaul]

Thanks. The more I’ve thought about it, the more it makes complete sense

Happens more than you think as well - I was on the line for a recent U18s game, challenge went out for a throw right next to me, I was convinced it was a red throw, just about to signal when blue picked up the ball took the throw in and no one said a word!

 

[TSHudson]

If you're still convinced it's a goal kick after giving the corner kick, then "see" a push and award a defensive free kick once the corner is taken.

Are you actually suggesting that a referee invents an offence to even out a wrong decision? That’s terrible advice, you can’t make stuff up and even out bad decisions.

With the corner / goal kick decision, firstly players reactions can help, but they’re not always right as players tend to see what they want and can easily miss things. If you thought it was a goal kick, but saw the AR give a corner, you could’ve gone over and explained what you saw to the AR and asked if they saw anything different, if they had a better view of something.

 

[Big Cat]

Are you actually suggesting that a referee invents an offence to even out a wrong decision? That’s terrible advice, you can’t make stuff up and even out bad decisions.

With the corner / goal kick decision, firstly players reactions can help, but they’re not always right as players tend to see what they want and can easily miss things. If you thought it was a goal kick, but saw the AR give a corner, you could’ve gone over and explained what you saw to the AR and asked if they saw anything different, if they had a better view of something.

There are some folk on here who've been around the block many many times. Stick around, you might learn a thing or two

 

[Peach]

Sometimes, if I've made an obvious error on the goal kick/corner situation, I'll look over at the CAR, and shout "what? goal kick? thanks lino" and give them a thumbs up... even though they're looking at me blank. I've never been questioned about it yet!

 

[TSHudson]

There are some folk on here who've been around the block many many times. Stick around, you might learn a thing or two

Well maybe that's part of the problem?! Honestly suggesting you make up a phantom decision to even out an incorrect one is shocking and terrible advice.

 

[Kes]

Sometimes, what you think you've seen isn't necessarily what actually happened.
When it comes to situations like the OP describes I generally do one of 2 things:

1. Give the "expected" decision - players body language/reactions whilst not objective are often a half-decent indication of what should come next, especially if you're not 100% sure yourself. Whatever I do, I'm gonna piss 11 people off so I just go with it.

2. Go with the defensive option. On more than one occasion I've been unsure whether it's last come off the defender for a corner or the forward for a goal kick. On these occasions I always opt for the defensive call (goal kick). Damage limitation and all that. I'll always respond to the inevitable protest from the other team with the truth. "Sorry guys, I'm not 100% sure either way so we're going defensive - same goes when we're at the other end". They might not like it, but generally respect the logic in the explanation.

 

[Russell Jones]

Are you actually suggesting that a referee invents an offence to even out a wrong decision? That’s terrible advice, you can’t make stuff up and even out bad decisions.

.

The suggestion, borne out of many years of experience, is that, if you are confident you made a mistake in giving a Corner, you then become super vigilant in looking out for attacking fouls at the taking of the corner. There's generally more than enough players in the box pushing, pulling, holding to make this credible. You are of course right that if there is not even a sniff of a foul then so be it.

and throws ball down when he realises.

When dissent is non verbal and thus obvious to everyone involved, it's generally wise to punish it. In this one off situation, deep into injury time, you might get away with it however at other times and certainly at higher levels, this is the kind of dissent that makes for an easy yellow.

 

[one]

Humility goes a long way in refereeing to gain player trust and avoid dissent. If you have made a mistake and you know it, don't be stubborn by insisting to back it up, "sorry mate, I screwed up. Should have played advantage there." Or if you are not sure, make a decision but justify it with humility, "mate, there could have been a foul there but I didn't see any, I am not perfect but I have to make a decision on what I see". Doing all that with confidant body language means you are not portrayed as a weak referee plus you can counter these by showing authority and confidently selling the many decision you are sure of.

Having said that

1. Should have waited longer to get a more definitive read from players. But I'd be honest, I would have probably done the same as you. But before changing my decision say "sorry guys, my bad'. But sell you next decision with a lot of authority.

2. Context is very important here. There is no way I would bin him for that in isolation. But if he is on his last straw, I'd bin him for less than that. It sound like you did the right thing. And to the player asking for sin bin "naaaaah" with a big smile.

 

[Ben448844]

The suggestion, borne out of many years of experience, is that, if you are confident you made a mistake in giving a Corner, you then become super vigilant in looking out for attacking fouls at the taking of the corner. There's generally more than enough players in the box pushing, pulling, holding to make this credible. You are of course right that if there is not even a sniff of a foul then so be it.


When dissent is non verbal and thus obvious to everyone involved, it's generally wise to punish it. In this one off situation, deep into injury time, you might get away with it however at other times and certainly at higher levels, this is the kind of dissent that makes for an easy yellow.

As a player, if we were defending a contentious corner or free kick, we'd get really close to the attackers and then claim for anything once the set piece was taken knowing that most refs would give us a decision. As a ref I'm amazed more teams don't do it, it makes it so much easier for me if they do

 

[Russell Jones]

As a player, if we were defending a contentious corner or free kick, we'd get really close to the attackers and then claim for anything once the set piece was taken knowing that most refs would give us a decision. As a ref I'm amazed more teams don't do it, it makes it so much easier for me if they do

In the same way as I'm amazed that more players don't take FKs quicker in order to play the ball into the opposition player who has (knowingly) 'stood on the ball'. Easy and inevitable yellow card but so often they just complain about it instead

 

[Kes]

In the same way as I'm amazed that more players don't take FKs quicker in order to play the ball into the opposition player who has (knowingly) 'stood on the ball'. Easy and inevitable yellow card but so often they just complain about it instead

Never really quite understood that business?

Players (and coaches) seem to think that it's perfectly within the laws to do that - standing over the ball to prevent it being taken quickly I mean.
If I award a FK and the penalised player say, gets to his feet and remains where he was, then fine. But the second I've blown that whistle for the FK, any opposition player who deliberately moves towards the ball (ie not 10 yards away) is cardable - whether the ball hits him or not.

 

[GraemeS]

Never really quite understood that business?

Players (and coaches) seem to think that it's perfectly within the laws to do that - standing over the ball to prevent it being taken quickly I mean.
If I award a FK and the penalised player say, gets to his feet and remains where he was, then fine. But the second I've blown that whistle for the FK, any opposition player who deliberately moves towards the ball (ie not 10 yards away) is cardable - whether the ball hits him or not.

I mean, you can argue that even allowing that much is stretching things. The offence is "failing to respect the distance" and the onus is on the player to avoid that offence. Even though it's convention, there's nothing in there about being allowed to get to your feet and stand still!

 

[TSHudson]

Humility goes a long way in refereeing to gain player trust and avoid dissent. If you have made a mistake and you know it, don't be stubborn by insisting to back it up, "sorry mate, I screwed up. Should have played advantage there." Or if you are not sure, make a decision but justify it with humility, "mate, there could have been a foul there but I didn't see any, I am not perfect but I have to make a decision on what I see". Doing all that with confidant body language means you are not portrayed as a weak referee plus you can counter these by showing authority and confidently selling the many decision you are sure of.

Completely agree on this. I think far too many referees have the old school Judge Dredd mentality of "I am the law." It was even in my initial training to never ever admit to the players that you had made a mistake, that "the decision you make, is always the right decision" I have found in experience, that being honest and open gains respect and manages a game much better than stubbornly refusing to give any ground. When first starting out I had a complete brain freeze at a penalty and gave a goal kick for encroachment of the attacking team when the penalty was scored, instead of a retake. As soon as the goal kick was taken it dawned on me what I'd done and at the next stoppage, I held my hands up and apologised for the mistake. The raging that had been going on immediately stopped and all the players were relatively OK with it. I think it helped that they were already 5-0 up of course and the game had been managed well up to that point.
But in general, being open and honest is the right approach.

 

[Brian Hamilton]

Are you actually suggesting that a referee invents an offence to even out a wrong decision? That’s terrible advice, you can’t make stuff up and even out bad decisions.

With the corner / goal kick decision, firstly players reactions can help, but they’re not always right as players tend to see what they want and can easily miss things. If you thought it was a goal kick, but saw the AR give a corner, you could’ve gone over and explained what you saw to the AR and asked if they saw anything different, if they had a better view of something.

I like you, you're new round here.

The above suggestion is not my own. It actually comes from David Elleray and is a strategy he used during a high profile game. He described it in his autobiography. You might have heard of Mr Elleray. He's got letters after his name for services to football and he's the Technical Director for IFAB, the folks who write the Laws of the Game.

Now would you like helping down from your high horse?