deusex
RefChat Addict
Reckon I could find 5 similar handballs than were given in the prem just this season.
Everton - Forest
- Thread starter cwyeary
- Start date
Reckon I could find 5 similar handballs than were given in the prem just this season.
5 handballs where the players arm is in a natural position for their body movement, actually making a movement to bring their arm back in towards / behind their body, the ball is struck firmly from close range, the on field referee didn't give it but VAR overruled and did give it? I think possibly not...
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deusex
RefChat Addict
Well if you're gonna add your own (completely irrelevant) criteria then no.
Is it completely irrelevant or is there a part of what I said that doesn't apply to the Ashley young 'handball' from Sunday? Given the discussion was about whether VAR should have awarded these as penalties?
deusex
RefChat Addict
My claim was "Reckon I could find 5 similar handballs than were given in the prem just this season."
This was after someone claimed there was "no case to answer" for the HB.
Whether VAR awarded them doesn't really matter.
The person claimed that there was no case to answer for VAR not intervening in the handball claim.
It's not handball for me (and many others).
May be, but there wasn't VAR, there weren't the same number of television games, there were less cameras in grounds, etc. And I remember there being huge criticism of him at the time, pretty sure he was forced out of the role. Clubs were calling for him to go, and there was even mutiny amongst the referees as he continually threw them to the wolves.
Quite literally when you think of how many Molineux faithful have been outraged recently
Runner Ref
Well-Known Member
I agree that things weren't close to perfect when he was there, and he had the advantage of there being less of a microscope on referees at the time.
But I do think Webb is making a pigs ear out of it. Problem is, if he goes, who comes in?
I don't think we have a particularly great crop of officials at the moment. But when you see Oliver & Taylot officiate in Europe and internationals, they seem to have far fewer issues than they do when in England
Dale Johnson covers this in his VAR review. There have been similar penalties awarded this season, but they have in the main been given by the on-field referee. As they are very subjective decisions VAR won't get involved to recommend a review, but equally if they aren't given that is still a subjective decision so VAR will still stay away.
VAR, at least not in its current guise, is never going to result in two identical challenges / handballs resulting in the same outcome. Despite the media trying to make everyone think otherwise, that was never the intention of VAR when introduced.
Here's one for anyone that thinks behaviours in the professional game doesn't impact grass roots. I get copied in to all of the low mark justifications for the league I'm involved in. The first two reports this week openly accuse the referee of cheating, don't think there have been any this season prior to this weekend. Coincidence, I don't think so? Comments taken from the reports below ...
It was obvious the bias he had against our team.
Was the 12th man for the other team.
It was obvious the bias he had against our team.
Was the 12th man for the other team.
I disagree, i think he quite open what he expects from the VARs and don't want them intervening on the grey area decisions and rather they are left on the field. So Young's handball is a perfect example of that, some think it's handball, some don't but the referee has said no and probably mentioned proximity as a factor which the VAR probably agreed hence no review. Whether the handball law says that should be punished then who knows.
The first penalty shout is debatable also hence I'm comfortable for VAR not to get involved but the final one is hard to understand. I know Dale Johnson explained a referee getting the description of what happens wrong does not necessarily mean a review will occur because there might not of been enough of a foul but that is just in the VAR's opinion, the referee on the field should be the one deciding whether that's the case and the fact he thought he took the ball and didn't is an clear and obvious error. Let him look at it, he might think it's enough contact for a penalty and the only reason he didn't give a penalty was because he took the ball.
What Howard Webb has to take blame for(aslong with other people in the PGMOL) is making appointments where fans/media and in this case clubs are question the impartiality of an official when decisions have gone against them They have done this(Anthony Taylor refereeing Manchester clubs being the common one highlighted) and you just feel its was a matter of time something would happen.
Runner Ref
Well-Known Member
I'm not just talking about VAR- I'm talking about the whole thing. The standard has been particularly poor this season. Basic errors being committed by officials and a high lack of consistency. Key example being no penalty given for the foul on Reyna, yet an almost identical incident in the Newcastle vs Wolves game being given as a pen, despite minimal contact.
I still stand by my belief that SG1/2 officials are exceptionally bad with SFP.
I agree that he doesn't want the VAR being involved in a grey area decision, but no one can define what a grey area decision is.
Unfortunately too true. Similar to when the ref lower down the EFL was chased off the pitch, the next weekend my mates league had a (league) record high 40 match abandonments due to poor behaviour/abuse of match officials, including both of his games. Unsurprisingly, the following weekend there were no matches/refs in said league.
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The difference in those incidents was the referee given the decision on the field, there is no doubt in my mind if Taylor given any of those penalties, the VAR would not of overturned the decision. I'm all for not refereeing the game but VAR's have to be braver in certain situations and especially in cases where the referee clearly has not seen it correctly(like Taylor's got the ball gesture or Oliver giving a goal kick instead of a corner). Howard Webb version of the grey area is where people are split on a decision and the on field decision can be supported, I don't know how that can be the case on the 3rd penalty but the other 2 are a little more understandable(if albeit I do think that is an handball).
And yes SG1 Officials when it comes to SFP has been exposed by VAR, I barely see a referee going straight red for SFP anymore. The higher threshold for a red in the PL and the theory some have since VAR was introduced that referees goes safe with a yellow and not making the brave decisions anymore.
Runner Ref
Well-Known Member
Practically any decision can be split down the middle and supported. This weekend being a prime example; he doesn't give the pen as 'there was minimal contact'. He could have gave the pen and used the get out of 'soft fouls are still fouls'.
Handball in expected position; expected by who? I can live with the Forest pen not being given, but I can't fathom the Chelsea vs City one. Ball travels a long distance and his arms are out away from his body. Excuse seems ti be that he was jumping. Does this mean if a player jumps with their arms tucked in by their side they'll ve penalised as this isn't expected position when jumping?
If you have aspirations of progressing I strongly recommend deleting that tweet. This won't be a good look if you get to an advanced level and people want to dig you out for something from your past, including your social media activity.
There are also many referees who have found themselves on the wrong end of disciplinary proceedings following their social media posts.
To be honest, I've just gone through my account and deleted nearly all of the posts I've put up in the last week. As someone else has said to me, that site is full of morons who don't know the first thing about refereeing and I'm just going to stop reading the posts, never mind responding. Even edited the post on this forum to remove that tweet.