Not just refereeing, can also cost you job offers.
Everton - Forest
- Thread starter cwyeary
- Start date
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
I think this is a significant difference between the PL and many other leagues. In many leagues there seems to be a view that HB can be essentially objective such that calls are C&E and VAR can be used very aggressively for HB, both for PK and in the APP. (I’m not advocating for that, just observing. )
I think that is an interesting point. I read Dale Johnson's article most weeks and a reoccurring theme is the idea that VAR isn't designed to produce consistency. Which kind of leads to the question: why not?
The system is designed in such a way that two identical "handball" penalties can be reviewed by VAR and different results occur if one was given on-field and the other wasn't. Is that an acceptable result of the fuss, money and delay that VAR has introduced? Or would a system be more palatable if it did in fact target consistency and still sometimes fell short, rather than trying to pretend that consistency isn't desirable at all?
It's a way which fans and probably pundits will never get on board with that is for sure. They expect consistency which you will never get with subjective decisions.
I feel sorry for the VAR's because its a no win situation and the scrutiny must be immense on when the intervene and when not to intervene.
I don't think this is wrong, but also, I don't think it should automatically rule out aiming for consistency and only achieving 90% of the way. Unlike the current approach which seems designed to leave such a large grey area that 50% coin-flip consistency is the top-end limit by design.
This is interesting Rusty, because by putting that in writing to the league it's defamation, especially the first comment. If I was the referee I'd want to know and would immediately be talking to a solicitor...One thing to give low marks for mistakes, perceived or real, another thing to accuse someone of bias...
Russell Jones
RefChat Addict
You're right. It's a conscious choice to prioritise backing the on field officials where possible (bit like 'Umpire's Call' in cricket). Whilst this is a laudable aim, I would agree that IF you choose to have VAR (which, IMO, is a terrible mistake) then knowingly accepting inconsistency between two identical decisions is always gong to be a super tough sell.
That's what a lot of leagues have done. There's always going to be calls where the on field decision is supported either way, but in a world where refs train on video clips to get a preferred decision it logically makes sense for more VAR not less.
Kinsleyr
Member
I see the PGMOL have now provided the audio for this and Taylor says 'he gets the ball' when you can see from the vid that they have released that the defender goes through the back of the attacking player to get to the ball (i.e. the attackers foot hits the ball). Why did the VAR agree with Taylor here? It beggars belief that the VAR was able to back up Taylor when it is clearly wrong from all the angles of the video that the attacking player was fouled. Incredible!
FinalWhistle
Armchair Referee
With such obvious reffing errors, one can see why people sometimes think a decision was fixed, even if it wasn't. I haven't seen it, so am not expressing an opinion on it, just going by your account.
The Ginger Ref
Active Member
The concerning thing is it is a C&O error, and the VAR have failed to overrule it.
The media and football community harped on about "re-refereeing", at the moment, they can't even get the basics right, let alone re-refereeing or over refereeing.
After Mike Dean's "mate" comments, situations like this do nothing to reduce the opinion that PGMOL referees are out to protect their own at the expense of the correct decision... it's either that or they are incompetent.
The media and football community harped on about "re-refereeing", at the moment, they can't even get the basics right, let alone re-refereeing or over refereeing.
After Mike Dean's "mate" comments, situations like this do nothing to reduce the opinion that PGMOL referees are out to protect their own at the expense of the correct decision... it's either that or they are incompetent.
Russell Jones
RefChat Addict
Wow, just wow. This was a bad decision by both one of the best referees in the world (according to PGMOL, UEFA & FIFA) and by the VAR. They will be marked down accordingly. Conversely, the VAR will also be praised for correctly not intervening in two other critical penalty decisions and probably for a number of other situations in the game as well. Hanging out officials to dry for one error on a referee forum just seems bizarre to me .. surely, of all people, we know how difficult refereeing is. And we can only imagine the additional pressure involved in games being watched by tens of thousands live and 100's of millions on TV ...
Agree, Taylor got 2 KMIs correct and Attwell will be praised for not intervening. Taylor got one wrong, which I can fully understand how he got wrong as he thought there was a touch on the ball, the fault is really with Attwell for not intervening. But let's not forget that they are under huge pressure to come to a decision as quickly as possible, and mistakes will happen. Any process that involves a human being making a decision will be subject to human error, that is just part of life.
Any actual referee suggesting there is any kind of corruption involved needs to give their head a wobble. And they will be doing it on another forum as anyone doing that on here will be gone for good.
Webb has made clear that VAR should have intervened on that. As for why not, fouls are a subjective decision so there is always a chance for error even on a video check.