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es1

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Level 4 Referee
Yes it can.

Really? For a dive unrelated to the actual tackle/foul that led to the pen?

Suppose you could think about it like any normal foul/handball/offside in the build up.

In that case flabbergasted it wasn't pulled back
 

Alex Rush-Fear

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Level 4 Referee
"Penalty kick/no penalty kick - attacking team offence in the build up to the penalty incident (handball, foul, offside etc.)"
 

Tealeaf

Lighting the darkest hour
Staff member
Level 5 Referee
Nonissue for me here. Player got straight back up and tried to recover the ball.
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
Level 5 Referee
He knew full well what he was doing - it wasn't just an accidental falling over, it was simulation.
Having watched it again now I'd tend to agree. By the letter of the law, the referee should have recognised it as an attempt to deceive and blown for the simulation before the foul for the penalty took place. I'd have thought that clear and obvious error was what VAR is for ...
 

socal lurker

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I haven't gone back to look, but if I'm remembering the right play, his behavior wasn't of deception as he was immediately up and after the ball when he fell. It looked to me more like he lost his footing than that he was trying to get a foul called. That would seem to be pretty rough to call a C&O error to reverse the PK to call simulation.
 

es1

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Level 4 Referee
In my opinion it was about as clear an act of simulation as you could ever wish to see. To not punish it was poor and led directly to the pen being awarded.

You're right he did bounce straight back up but I think this was because he knew how bad the dive was.

Opinions eh
 

socal lurker

RefChat Addict
Pretty dumb by the keeper.

But not as dumb as the Belgium GK who blatantly reached out and shoved an opponent while he was holding the ball in live play. Could have been an awful way to give up a PK. (I have given a PK on a not-too-different play with a knucklehead keeper, but I think Kuipers appropriately let it slide--but why would a GK ever want to give a ref an opportunity to make that call??)
 

Tealeaf

Lighting the darkest hour
Staff member
Level 5 Referee
Does that negate the dive?
Was it a dive though? The speed of getting up plants a seed of doubt - was it an attempt to deceive the referee? nticipating contact that didn’t come? Lost his footing?

Speed of getting back up, lends itself to the latter two. I’d have also said something like “No, get up/get on with it” which he has.

I’ve a much bigger issue with people like Squealish who are at deaths door after a minor touch than this one.
 

es1

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Level 4 Referee
Was it a dive though? The speed of getting up plants a seed of doubt - was it an attempt to deceive the referee? nticipating contact that didn’t come? Lost his footing?

Speed of getting back up, lends itself to the latter two. I’d have also said something like “No, get up/get on with it” which he has.

I’ve a much bigger issue with people like Squealish who are at deaths door after a minor touch than this one.

i get where you're coming from, but imo he dives, realises how poor a dive it is and just gets straight back up
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
Level 5 Referee
i get where you're coming from, but imo he dives, realises how poor a dive it is and just gets straight back up
This ^ ^

He pulled his knees up and flung his arms theatrically into the air and then a split second later, thought better of it and attempted to chase the ball on his knees!! A dive all day long. A shame for Austria that the officials all missed it ...
 
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JamesL

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Level 4 Referee
Did it even get a mention from the commentary/pundit team?
Penalise it if you think he is trying to deceive you, but it's guesswork. There's no appeal, from anyone, including the player. So it's a guess as to what his actual intent was or what he was trying to achieve.
I think it's an in between. He is jumping over/past a challenge. Is he expecting contact, that doesn't come? Is he fabricating contact has been made? Is he trying to (poorly) simulate a foul. I don't think it's clear, the fact he keeps tryi g to play to me suggests not, but who knows what goes through these players mind.
 

Yampy

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Level 4 Referee
Austrian keeper shown a yellow card for running over to confront the AR following the 2nd Dutch goal. Completely unnecessary dissent considering everyone knows VAR will check for offside anyway!
Daniel Bachman has played the majority of his football for teams that play outside the EPL and VAR doesn’t come into play. It was also only his 4th cap therefore, his knowledge of VAR would be understandably patchy.
 

JamesL

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Level 4 Referee
Daniel Bachman has played the majority of his football for teams that play outside the EPL and VAR doesn’t come into play. It was also only his 4th cap therefore, his knowledge of VAR would be understandably patchy.
I thought the same though. Silly yellow card to pickup, when all goals are checked. Irrelevant to the fact of VAR he wasnt even close to offside either.
 
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