The Ref Stop

English Grassroots Return

Yeah, I think the lack of being able to play behind closed doors is a significant factor. I've refereed on the Isthmian development league and the 3-person refereeing team as a whole gets ~£100 for that level. I presume at senior level you're adding a bit to those fees + mileage (+a 4th official?) - could easily be £150-£200 of fees. Charge a fiver at the gate and you're talking about needing 30-40 people through the door just to cover referee expenses. Once they're in the ground you've got other sources of income (programs, bar/food sales), but then you've also got other expenses to consider too (power, hospitality)

Taking £200-£300 out of each club's pockets in order to allow them to play a match is a lot to ask with no income. Are we talking about a level where player expect to be paid as well?
 
The Ref Stop
GraemeS said:
Yeah, I think the lack of being able to play behind closed doors is a significant factor. I've refereed on the Isthmian development league and the 3-person refereeing team as a whole gets ~£100 for that level. I presume at senior level you're adding a bit to those fees + mileage (+a 4th official?) - could easily be £150-£200 of fees. Charge a fiver at the gate and you're talking about needing 30-40 people through the door just to cover referee expenses. Once they're in the ground you've got other sources of income (programs, bar/food sales), but then you've also got other expenses to consider too (power, hospitality)

Taking £200-£300 out of each club's pockets in order to allow them to play a match is a lot to ask with no income. Are we talking about a level where player expect to be paid as well?
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On the Supply league I do, it's £60 for the referee and £40 for each AR, all fixed fees no mileage, but that is £140 each home game.
 
GraemeS said:
Yeah, I think the lack of being able to play behind closed doors is a significant factor. I've refereed on the Isthmian development league and the 3-person refereeing team as a whole gets ~£100 for that level. I presume at senior level you're adding a bit to those fees + mileage (+a 4th official?) - could easily be £150-£200 of fees. Charge a fiver at the gate and you're talking about needing 30-40 people through the door just to cover referee expenses. Once they're in the ground you've got other sources of income (programs, bar/food sales), but then you've also got other expenses to consider too (power, hospitality)

Taking £200-£300 out of each club's pockets in order to allow them to play a match is a lot to ask with no income. Are we talking about a level where player expect to be paid as well?
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Yes, the players will be getting expenses. Depending on club could be £50 match or more. Add in coach hire for away games, kit washing, etc, and will have a £20k budget for the season.
 
I think social distancing in the crowd can definitely be practiced, although it depends on the ground. Those with small stands can place the stickers with ticks and crosses to show which can be taken up (like you see at parliament and subs benches in football). Around the pitch, people can definitely be a metre apart. The clubhouses are typically small but definitely think it’s possible if guidelines are followed. Of course, the actual game of football is the concern, but once that’s given the go ahead, I think it’ll be possible for crowds to attend games
 
lincs22 said:
Yes, the players will be getting expenses. Depending on club could be £50 match or more. Add in coach hire for away games, kit washing, etc, and will have a £20k budget for the season.
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Could be way more than that in the South, I know of one step 3 club that have been paying over £200 per game to individual players.

Someone once told me it costs around £500 to £600 to host a step 5 game, and that doesn't include any money paid to players. Match officials, hospitality, floodlights if needed, etc. I always thought that seemed high, and in fairness it was quoted after a referee caused a game to be replayed and the league wanted to charge him the full cost of it (they failed), but even if it is half of that its a lot of money if they aren't getting any money from the gate or bar.
 
RustyRef said:
its a lot of money if they aren't getting any money from the gate or bar.
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Which is exactly why it has already been made crystal clear that the NLS (Steps 1-7) will not restart behind closed doors. It does, however, seem that the vast majority of clubs are up for a restart with limited capacity / no away fans, for exactly the reasons @alexv describes above. Whilst there will doubtless be logistical challenges with this, if the alternative is no matches then I'm sure there will be a will and therefore a way!

Everything seems to be gravitating towards a mid Sep start (maybe initially kicking off with playing 'catch up' on the Preliminary rounds of the FA Cup?) with friendlies allowed for a few weeks before that. That said, for that to happen, we'd need to hear some positive signs out of the next FA meeting (14th July I believe) AND a continuation of the improving trends across all COVID related numbers. Fingers crossed!
 
Russell Jones said:
Which is exactly why it has already been made crystal clear that the NLS (Steps 1-7) will not restart behind closed doors. It does, however, seem that the vast majority of clubs are up for a restart with limited capacity / no away fans, for exactly the reasons @alexv describes above. Whilst there will doubtless be logistical challenges with this, if the alternative is no matches then I'm sure there will be a will and therefore a way!

Everything seems to be gravitating towards a mid Sep start (maybe initially kicking off with playing 'catch up' on the Preliminary rounds of the FA Cup?) with friendlies allowed for a few weeks before that. That said, for that to happen, we'd need to hear some positive signs out of the next FA meeting (14th July I believe) AND a continuation of the improving trends across all COVID related numbers. Fingers crossed!
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How do you police no away fans when it's pay on gate?
 
RustyRef said:
Could be way more than that in the South, I know of one step 3 club that have been paying over £200 per game to individual players.

Someone once told me it costs around £500 to £600 to host a step 5 game, and that doesn't include any money paid to players. Match officials, hospitality, floodlights if needed, etc. I always thought that seemed high, and in fairness it was quoted after a referee caused a game to be replayed and the league wanted to charge him the full cost of it (they failed), but even if it is half of that its a lot of money if they aren't getting any money from the gate or bar.
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My local club for 30 years (one I played for at Junior level for 8 years and have on/off attended as a fan for 25 years is step 5/6. During the good times when they were battling with Fylde up from North West Counties 2nd Division and up, the majority of the team came from Liverpool, 50 miles away. The best player was on over £200 a week. Tickets were £6 for adults and the average attendance was around 100. Clearly the club lost money as clubs like Fylde took the promotion spots and the dream was over and now they don't pay £200, but still have players coming from over 50 miles away which will cost. I think during this seasons contract negotiations, many will be on pay as you play and reduced contracts. Semi pro football will have to accept that its unique financial model is probably in the bin for the foreseeable future.
 
Ben448844 said:
Agreed you can't. It will be advice, not an enforced rule id imagine.
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All of it will be in real terms.

Clubs will simply have to prove they've done all they can with respect to government/FA guidelines for social distancing ie. restrictions on attendance, signage, barriers etc. but what people actually do will as ever, be down to them. Very little during this pandemic has actually been "policed". We've only to look at what's been going on in our towns and cities to see that. :cool:

You can show a horse to water ....
 
There's an announcement about the return of team sports this evening. Gyms and swimming pools rumoured to be opening next week too
 
Pools and gyms from the 25th July. Team sports from this weekend (cricket) with other announcements to follow regarding other sports. Looks like we will be starting in time this season
 
Obviously very encouraging, but as discussed on this very thread, in a calm and sensible manner I might add!, lots of practical issues to work through.
 
Scotland phase 3 announced for tomorrow but was mentioned adult sports wont be returning.
 
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