Dropped Ball

[Goldfish]

Hi
Over complicating this
In all cases, the referee drops the ball for one player of the team that last touched the ball at the position where it last touched a player, an outside agent or a match official.
In the case where player Team A passes the ball to a team mate and it hits the referee on the way changing possession to Team B the dropped ball gives possession back to Team A where it hit the referee.
If the touch by the referee has little or no impact to play with no change of possession then no need to stop for a DB
Any DB inside the penalty area must be given to the goalkeeper.

 

[LOAFer]

This is a very useful thread. I have two questions:

1. "all the other players (of both teams) must be at least 4m (4.5yds) away" - is that until the ball hits the floor or is touched by the player receiving the bounced ball?

2. When the ball is bounced to the keeper in his penalty area, my assumption is that he cannot pick the ball up. Am I correct?

 

[socal lurker]

1. Ball is in play on a DB when it touches the ground.
2. Why would you assume that? GKs have been picking up DBs for eons. Nothing changed on that.

 

[LOAFer]

1. Ball is in play on a DB when it touches the ground.
2. Why would you assume that? GKs have been picking up DBs for eons. Nothing changed on that.

Many thanks for the prompt response. Sticking with the same numbering:

1. Thanks. I could not find the answer in the LOAF;
2. I cannot remember dropping the ball to the goalkeeper. In addition, I cannot find the answer in the LOAF.

 

[JamesL]

Many thanks for the prompt response. Sticking with the same numbering:

1. Thanks. I could not find the answer in the LOAF;
2. I cannot remember dropping the ball to the goalkeeper. In addition, I cannot find the answer in the LOAF.

1. Pg 88
• All other players (of both teams) must remain at least 4 m (4.5 yds) from the
ball until it is in play
The ball is in play when it touches the ground.
2. The laws specifically state when a keeper can and can't use his/her hands. This isn't one of them so it's safe to assume that handling by a GK within his own PA is acceptable.

 

[one]

. In addition, I cannot find the answer in the LOAF.

Can you find anything in LOTG that says if the goalkeeper picks up the ball its an offence? No. Then he can.

LOTG lists all things that can't be done (offences) and the only times its lists thing that can be done is for clarification only. Obviously they didn't see the need to clarify this one.

On a different note, we are now having a pool of restart distance requirements, 2 yards, 4.5 yards and 10 yards (and 1 yard*).

 

[Peter Grove]

I cannot find the answer in the LOAF.

Well, it's not there specifically in relation to a dropped ball but it can be clearly inferred from law 12. This says that it's not a direct free kick offence if the goalkeeper handles the ball inside their own penalty area and it's only an indirect free kick offence if they handle it when it was deliberately kicked or thrown-in to them by a team mate, or when they control it with the hands, release it and then handle it again before another player touches it.

Here, the keeper is in their own penalty area, the ball was not kicked or thrown-in to them by a team mate and they are not handling it again after releasing it so there is no offence if they pick it up.

 

[TSHudson]

I still think this refreshed law is a bit confusing and is going to contribute to some heated incidents.

For example, attacking team A are in the area, try to pass to a teammate but the ball hits the ref and goes to defending team B. Law 9 would indicate that it should therefore be a dropped ball to team A, but since it's in the area, you would actually drop the ball to goalkeeper of defending team B!

Can't wait for that to happen in Saturday / Sunday football and see the reaction of attacking team A

 

[socal lurker]

One more reason for refs to stay out of the PA . . .

We can get more silly: shot that was heading into an open goal slightly touches R in the PA. We take away the goal and give the ball to the GK.

Or defender clearing ball, and attacker gets a slight toe on it, poorly positioned R blocks the clearance. Since the attacker was actually the last one to touch it, we now have an attacking DB near the PA.

This is a law that works pretty much fine when the ref being in the way disadvantages a team it its defensive half. But it is definitely going to give us headaches in those odd situations. (Same with injuries--this means we have to be thoughtful about when we stop for injuries. If we stop for an injury when the attacking team has the ball in the PA, it goes to the GK.)

 

[RobOda]

I've emailed IFAB about this

What did they say?

One that has been bugging me is if the ball hits you on the way out of the field of play. I raised this at training and was told we give it as a drop ball anyway. Doesn't sit right with me but I'm probably overthinking it.

 

[Adam Johnson]

I have just downloaded the new app that IFAB have brought out and despite having a quick glance previously on the laws of the game, I have had a proper read this time.

So, the dropped ball scenario.

The updated laws suggest, unless I've read it wrong, that we now drop the ball to one person.
This could be the keeper if the drop ball is required in the area, or to a player from the team that last touched the ball.

Is this correct? No more contested dropped balls? Not that we see many contested these days.

Dropped ball

• If play is stopped inside the penalty area, the ball will be dropped for the goalkeeper
• If play is stopped outside the penalty area, the ball will be dropped for one player of the team that last touched the ball at the point of the last touch
• In all cases, all the other players (of both teams) must be at least 4m (4.5yds) away
• If the ball touches the referee (or another match official) and goes into the goal, team possession changes or a promising attack starts, a dropped ball is awarded

Also, on the last one, I assume the ball is "re-dropped" if the ball touches the referee and does any of the things mentioned ie goes into the goal, goes to opponent or favours the receiving ball with a promising attack (following being touched by the ref). Question here is, would you re-start if the player plays it quickly (legally, ie it bounces first before playing) but against you and starts a promising attack or play on as you are part of play?

Yes, correct. I would say this will make our jobs so much easier as referees! I’m looking forward to implementing in due course.

 

[socal lurker]

What did they say?

One that has been bugging me is if the ball hits you on the way out of the field of play. I raised this at training and was told we give it as a drop ball anyway. Doesn't sit right with me but I'm probably overthinking it.

It's not well written.

I think there are two different scenarios:

(1) The ball was going to be in play, but went out of play because it hit the ref. In that case, I think it meets the criteria of change of possession that results in DB. Fully consistent with SOTG and letter of the law.

(2) the ball was already going out, but touches the R on the way out. From a literal reading, it would seem to still be a DB, as the team in possession is changing because the ball went out of play. But the SOTG doesn't remotely support that. In practical terms, I'm personally going with the spirit here and the rationale that the touch by the ref didn't cause the change of possession as it was clearly going out already.

I think this is one of the areas of this that is going to get cleaned up next year as the wrinkles make themselves apparent in actual play. (So far as I know, there was no trial of this, they went straight to dumping it in the book. Had there been a trial, I would think some of these quirks would have been sorted out.)

 

[one]

I would think some of these quirks would have been sorted out.

Couldn't agree more. Nothing new though. The law makers see some common scenario which is not fair. They change the laws to fix it without thinking of the impact it will have on other uncommon scenarios. They then spend the next few years tweaking the law to fix the bits that the new law broke.

The general problem is the law makes the dropped ball to the team that previously had possession, not the team that would have had possession if it did not hit the referee. No matter if the ball is going out of play or it is in general play, this is an unfair scenario which I suspect player will continue to take the "fairness" into their own hands by kicking it to opponents from the dropped ball.

 

[zarathustra]

What did they say?

One that has been bugging me is if the ball hits you on the way out of the field of play. I raised this at training and was told we give it as a drop ball anyway. Doesn't sit right with me but I'm probably overthinking it.

I asked

Good morning,

I have been having a debate with a colleague regarding the recent laws changes around when a dropped ball should be awarded following the ball striking the referee.

Specifically, when the ball strikes the referee following a rebound, either from a goalpost etc, or another player.

For example, if a player fro Team A tried to pass to ball to a team mate, but it strikes a member of Team B and then the deflection strikes the referee providing a promising attack is not started, should a dropped ball be awarded?

My colleague believes that Team A should still be considered to be in possession of the ball and therefore if, after striking the referee the ball fell to a member of Team B then Team A should be awarded the dropped ball.

I maintain that Team A lost possession of the ball once it struck the player from Team B, and that Team B are not in possession because the ball deflected from the player i.e. they did not play the ball deliberately. Therefore once the ball hits the referee there would be no need for a dropped ball as neither team had possession of the ball at the time it struck the referee.

David Elleray replied:

Thank you for your question.

The Law is clear that in every circumstance when the referee is required to stop play and restart with a dropped ball, the ball is dropped for the team that last touched the ball (deliberately or accidentally) unless it is in the penalty area when it is dropped for the goalkeeper, regardless of who last touched the ball.

So in the instance I posted, despite neither team having possession the ball has to be dropped for team B, despite the fact the ball merely stuck and bounced off one of their players.

I know they can't plan for every eventuality, and I understand why the dropped ball law was changed, but in this instance it feels unfair that possession should go to team B, even though the ball just hit one of their players.

 

[RobOda]

I guess we had best be practising at dodge-ball for our training sessions so we don't have to deal with this?

 

[Justylove]

I've done 6 games pre season so far and have had 2 drop balls for ball hitting the referee (I was on the line and it was the same ref in the same game) in those games

I haven't yet seen players trying to engineer drop balls in this way

 

[ARF]

(I was on the line and it was the same ref in the same game)

I want a name!

Haven't had a single dropped ball in any of the six pre-season matches I've done so far - I did get hit by the ball during my one middle, but the same team regaining possession!

 

[Justylove]

I want a name!

Haven't had a single dropped ball in any of the six pre-season matches I've done so far - I did get hit by the ball during my one middle, but the same team regaining possession!

Got to preserve anonymity to protect the guilty!

 

[Nij]

I asked


David Elleray replied:



So in the instance I posted, despite neither team having possession the ball has to be dropped for team B, despite the fact the ball merely stuck and bounced off one of their players.

I know they can't plan for every eventuality, and I understand why the dropped ball law was changed, but in this instance it feels unfair that possession should go to team B, even though the ball just hit one of their players.

So, what would you have the laws say instead?
Clearly if a team gains possession from the ball hitting the referee, they may have gained an advantage from doing so, so we can't just play on, otherwise the entire law would make this allowance for "obviously not affecting the game".
So are you going to give it to the team that last had actual, useful possession? If so, how are you going to define this clearly and unambiguously enough that at least the vast majority of referees around the world can agree on what that looks like? And how are you going to exclude from your definition of possession, a single deflected touch, that may well have been claimed easily by the same player but for the ball touching the referee?
Or, as the actual law says, would you remove any doubt or ambiguity or need for a huge text, and simply say "give it to the last team to touch the ball, except when it was last touched/is currently in the penalty area"?

 

[zarathustra]

So, what would you have the laws say instead?
Clearly if a team gains possession from the ball hitting the referee, they may have gained an advantage from doing so, so we can't just play on, otherwise the entire law would make this allowance for "obviously not affecting the game".
So are you going to give it to the team that last had actual, useful possession? If so, how are you going to define this clearly and unambiguously enough that at least the vast majority of referees around the world can agree on what that looks like? And how are you going to exclude from your definition of possession, a single deflected touch, that may well have been claimed easily by the same player but for the ball touching the referee?
Or, as the actual law says, would you remove any doubt or ambiguity or need for a huge text, and simply say "give it to the last team to touch the ball, except when it was last touched/is currently in the penalty area"?

Not sure, but in my example do you think it would be fair and in the spirit of the game that team B get possession simply because the ball hit one of the players on the back of his head and then hit the referee?

My argument for the scenario I sent to IFAB is that neither team had possession, so there would be no need to award a dropped ball in the first place.

Team A lost possession when the pass was misskicked, and team B never had possession because all it did was hit one of their players.

All we really need to do is avoid getting hit by the ball, but you know that there will be a time when an edge case like this happens and no one will be happy with the outcome