A&H

Dropped ball kick back to keeper

IMHO, what it is appropriate for a referee to say/suggest on a DB is dependent on level of play. When I'm doing a game with 12 year olds and play was stopped with one team in control, I will engage. But I do it mostly with questions. "They had the ball when we stopped for the injury--are you going to kick it back to them?" If there's uncertainty or initial reluctance: "Are you sure? it's what the pros do to be good sports." I've never found a young player who didn't choose to do the sporting thing.
 
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socal lurker said:
IMHO, what it is appropriate for a referee to say/suggest on a DB is dependent on level of play. When I'm doing a game with 12 year olds and play was stopped with one team in control, I will engage. But I do it mostly with questions. "They had the ball when we stopped for the injury--are you going to kick it back to them?" If there's uncertainty or initial reluctance: "Are you sure? it's what the pros do to be good sports." I've never found a young player who didn't choose to do the sporting thing.
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Forgot the bit where the LOTG says about drop ball that 'this law applies to all game except youth'. You either apply it or you don't.
 
Players still expect us to manage drop balls at grass roots levels. I am not saying this is right or wrong but they want the ref to say kick it back to their keeper etc.
 
There is a balance between what the law says and what teams expect... I'd expect 100% of players and supporters expect managed drop balls, I can't see the major issue really!! Its a way to restart play.... Next!!!
 
alexgr said:
Forgot the bit where the LOTG says about drop ball that 'this law applies to all game except youth'. You either apply it or you don't.
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Nice snark. I am not violating the LOTG--I'm not telling anyone what to do. They make the choice. At younger levels, where the players don't necessarily know the game traditions, giving them the opportunity to make the right decision is appropriate. With older youth, it's a much more open ended question about what they pan to do.

(I cringe at some of referees I've done games with who still tell players what to do--which was never appropriate. IFAB didn't add the language in to stop referees from asking players what they were going to do, but because there were professional games in which the referee not only told the players what to do, but stopped play when they didn't do what the R said they should do.)
 
A good referee will take into account the age and ability level when applying (and coaching) all aspects of the Laws, including dropped ball
 
Laws say that the referee cannot manufacture the restart, but for me that means they cannot decide what happens. Suggesting is a lot different to deciding and I doubt anyone would have a problem with doing so.
 
RustyRef said:
Laws say that the referee cannot manufacture the restart, but for me that means they cannot decide what happens. Suggesting is a lot different to deciding and I doubt anyone would have a problem with doing so.
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Suggesting that 'you might want to think about kicking it back to the keeper' is manufacturing the result. By asking that question, you are having an effect in the outcome of the drop ball.
 
alexgr said:
Suggesting that 'you might want to think about kicking it back to the keeper' is manufacturing the result. By asking that question, you are having an effect in the outcome of the drop ball.
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Don't think I agree, and you still routinely see top level referees drop the ball for the keeper after play has been stopped when they had the ball. It keeps happening so they obviously aren't being pulled up for it. That is manufacturing the result far more than asking a player if he is going to kick it back.
 
RustyRef said:
Don't think I agree, and you still routinely see top level referees drop the ball for the keeper after play has been stopped when they had the ball. It keeps happening so they obviously aren't being pulled up for it. That is manufacturing the result far more than asking a player if he is going to kick it back.
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I agree, but it's a bad example - PL refs routinely ignore laws (a la handball, directives from FA/PGMOL and alleged spoken word from current/past PL refs discussed in other threads) so it's not really comparable.
 
alexgr said:
I agree, but it's a bad example - PL refs routinely ignore laws (a la handball, directives from FA/PGMOL and alleged spoken word from current/past PL refs discussed in other threads) so it's not really comparable.
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May be, but I've also seen level 3 and 4 referees do it and they aren't getting picked up either. It isn't what the law change was made for in my opinion, as I said suggesting is a lot different to deciding. Happened in the Chelsea vs Wednesday game recently after VAR overruled a penalty, ball was dropped for the keeper. Wednesday could and arguably should have insisted it was contested, but as we know most pro players haven't got a clue when it comes to knowing law.
 
alexgr said:
PL refs routinely ignore laws
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The biggest problem with the LOTG, is that they're selectively and routinely ignored. Yet we're all guilty of having strong opinions on those Laws which we chose to apply or which observers arbitrarily expect us to obey
We all seem agreed that 'money' is the biggest obstacle to better officiating at the top level. It's this which prevents the LOTG from being universally put into practice and it's this which leaves us guessing and squabbling further down the food chain
 
alexgr said:
Suggesting that 'you might want to think about kicking it back to the keeper' is manufacturing the result. By asking that question, you are having an effect in the outcome of the drop ball.
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I don't agree - if you merely make a suggestion, the players are under no obligation to follow it. You can't know whether they're going to follow your suggestion or not. The Laws say that, "the referee cannot decide who may contest a dropped ball or its outcome." Making a suggestion that the players may or may not follow does not decide the outcome, it only provides them with a possible alternative.

I agree with @socal lurker that it's probably only appropriate at youth level though.
 
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I once got picked up on an observation last season for dropping the ball for a keeper.

I hadn't managed it, i.e. I hadn't told the opposition they couldn't challenge for the ball, but because none of them wanted to I got picked up for it. Apparently I should have insisted that opposition players were there.
 
zarathustra said:
Apparently I should have insisted that opposition players were there.
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Really? Now, that would be clearly against the law:
the referee cannot decide who may contest a dropped ball
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Now, it's more often taken to mean that you can't insist on an uncontested dropped ball by imposing a situation where only one team takes part but by the same token, you can't insist that opposition participate if they choose not to.
 
Any tips on getting a drop ball conducted successfully, three on sat, each time I explained very clearly it has to hit ground before being touched which the players acknowledged and yes each had to be retaken, one of them 3 times!
 
Were these by any chance youth players? I used to have this a lot with U12 and sometimes U14 players. My experience was, after you have the ball again and are going to drop it, over-eager players such as you describe will always edge in towards each other, usually ending up almost toe to toe. When they do so, put your foot in between them and ask them to step back. As they are stepping back, lean forward a little and drop it just slightly beyond them (but still equidistant) so they can't actually reach it before it bounces.
 
When I started I was confused about what to do with injuries, I was looking around making sure I knew who was in possession, even waiting until someone clearly had the ball to be able to give them back possession.
Life gets much easier (except for ignorant players barking at you) when you realise it's always a dropped ball if you stop it and you really don't need to give one about who had it.
Having said that, there is nothing wrong with *asking* a player "are you going to play it back to the keeper" and if a goalkeeper had it, it is only logical to drop it for them - which isn't a breach of the laws as long as it is where the game was stopped.
 
Peter Grove said:
Were these by any chance youth players? I used to have this a lot with U12 and sometimes U14 players. My experience was, after you have the ball again and are going to drop it, over-eager players such as you describe will always edge in towards each other, usually ending up almost toe to toe. When they do so, put your foot in between them and ask them to step back. As they are stepping back, lean forward a little and drop it just slightly beyond them (but still equidistant) so they can't actually reach it before it bounces.
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I like that, and will start adopting it.

I referee a lot of U12, so my threshold for stopping for injury is lower than it would be at OA. Which means most matches I have to carry out at 2-3 dropped balls. I never tell the players what to do and they almost always contest one on one. I always remind them that the ball is in play when it touches the ground. I have had it kicked in my face once. The last match I did a dropped ball in, the defender kicked the ball straight into the attackers face, immediate whistle to stop for injury. Once the player had settled down and was OK to continue, I lined up for another dropped ball. Funnily enough none of the attacking team were keen to contest this one.
 
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