A&H

Depressing

RobOda said:
Is that really so?

My county has backed me and has told me to continue clamping down on any verbal offences and they will continue to deal with it fully. When I had an offensive language incident recently, my county, ref's officer and league officer all backed me and dealt with the incident.

When I was assessed back in August, I was commended for dishing out cautions for dissent and was particularly praised for giving one player two cautions followed by a red for dissent within five minutes of each offence occurring.

I've never felt my promotion prospects are at risk from dealing with dissent, if anything, the opposite - they take a dim view of permitting dissent.

I'd be very disappointed if where you're at, it is as you say, as that would undermine refereeing. :(
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Unfortunately I've had the opposite comment, along the lines of... you shouldn't end up in a situation where you are having to give a lot of yellows or a BBN/RC. Which to be honest can be true. But obviously isn't really!
 
The Referee Store
No CFA, observer, coach, mentor, etc, should be criticising a referee if they caution a player for dissent or send off for OFFINABUS.

What they should however be doing is looking for trends or contributing factors. If a referee has 80% of his cautions for dissent there is perhaps a problem that needs to be addressed that is contributing to the dissent. If he has a lot of cards for VC is he missing offences that are leading to retaliation, and so on. I had a real problem with dissent when I first started out, with well over 50% of my cautions for it, and it took an assessor to point out that I was letting way too many fouls go, and my positioning meant I was missing obvious fouls.
 
RustyRef said:
If a referee has 80% of his cautions for dissent there is perhaps a problem that needs to be addressed that is contributing to the dissent.
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Yes. Other referees in the league don't caution for dissent and the players are used to getting away with it so try the same on this referee.

Works the opposite with fouls but same outcome. Other referees don't miss fouls and players are not used a ref who keeps missing them.

When in Rome....
 
Give em all 90 minutes purgatory at Hillsborough watching that shower, then would really have something depressing to moan about!
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Give em all 90 minutes purgatory at Hillsborough watching that shower, then would really have something depressing to moan about!
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But they have committed football offences, should the punishment fit the crime. Watching at Hillsborough isn't a football event, we need to save that for far worse criminals.

Making them watch Leeds wearing a Millwall top would be more equivalent.....
 
one said:
Yes. Other referees in the league don't caution for dissent and the players are used to getting away with it so try the same on this referee.
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This. I don't take constant dissent from players, and they don't like it.
Last week I had 6 cautions in a game on a veterans' league where there are never usually any cautions. Four of these were for showing dissent. I don't usually do the league but they had someone call off at 8.30 for a 10.30 kick off, so they asked me to cover a game near my house.

When the league was formed, they actually held a meeting with the referees and said that they didn't want players cautioned! They had to revoke that a few weeks later because the obvious carnage ensued, but they still expect referees to manage the unmanageable where possible! Most of the players on the league are mid forties, but in some cases have never grown up.

None of the cautions were controversial - in fact, I admit I was too lenient. For example, a player went through the back of an opponent and then screamed "that's f***ing dogs**t!" when penalised. Yes, you got the ball, but you went through the player to get it. Usually I would send him, but on this league I'm expected to manage it as much as possible so only cautioned for dissent and not the reckless challenge - and the players even think that's too harsh. While cautioning I had players nearby saying “that’s a cheap booking!”
Looking at the people doing the other games on the same day I would only expect one of them to show any cards, and even then only one or maybe two. They wouldn’t know what hit them if I did the league regularly, especially if I refereed properly. I’m certainly not proud of my performance because I should have had 4 off, but that wouldn’t have been expected.

One of the teams appreciated my robust (at least by the standards of this league) approach because before the game they were worried about being kicked off the pitch by their opponents. When they saw how I handled the game they played ok, and won 3-2. They had two players cautioned but accepted bothThe game was actually ok, but what annoyed me was the constant whinging at every decision from one team. If I penalised them it was wrong. If I penalised the other team it should be a caution.

One of my leagues has asked me not to caution so many players - I said that if they didn't keep offending I wouldn't have to. For example, I sent a player off for an identical challenge to the one Mark Noble did against Leicester - unfortunately the week before, so they had nothing to compare with. I got dog’s abuse for that one, and the team said they’re asking the league not to put me on their games any more. I think the league will probably agree with their request!

I do feel like the odd one out because I won’t accept players shouting at me, but I wouldn’t take it in the street so why should I on the pitch?
Most of my games are fine, but I get given a lot of teams who cause trouble, and I don’t feel supported when I deal with them.

I think this is probably my last season. If the FA can’t be arsed to deal with dissent then why should I.
 
Well done Mark, that sounds like sensible refereeing, don't listen to 'what they expect' that's generally garbage and is usually self preservational.
It sounded quite similar to my approach TBF, no nonsense, don't err and I'll not be needing to caution!!!!
 
Agree with Markref, i did a veterans game once as a call off and it was a shambles, guys 20 years past their peak (if they ever had a peak) and the cover up for everything they lacked ability wise, was me
I vowed never again, and like Mark, I showed a few cards in a vain effort to keep the peace,
So about 2 years later, got the call off call again, and instantly thought no, then, well, I was not doing anything anyway, maybe my game was a one off.
It was worse, I walked off after 60 mins, told them to stick their match fee and would not do one again if the FIFA referee committee turned up at my door begging with bars of gold
In hindsight I think what a vets game want, is a referee who is as unfit as them and plays to the rules of 20 years ago, so me annoyingly for them always (usually!) being in the right place to call things just wound them up even more, I serious think they would rather the centre circle ref, as long as he did the same for both teams

few years back, I had a good run in a local kids league, few finals, text most Mondays from the league man to say teams been in touch to say what a good game had at weekend, then, few seasons ago, start of season was crazy, nothing changed with me but coaches just all of a sudden lost it every week, with me, opponents, own team, the works
near every game I had coaches away, reports re parents behaviour, more reds on park than I had before, then all of a sudden no more appointments came through for a few weeks. Eventually I phoned the league and was told "too many complaints about you, we dont want to use you anymore"
Which in reality meant "we are not taking your reports seriously/and/or CBA to do anything about it"
Fine with me, as above, I have no desire to officiate in a league who wont support me, (not once was I asked about any report or asked to a meeting etc)

That league folded 2 years ago as the better teams were fed up of the nonsense and slowly one by one drifted to other leagues.

I think my moral of the story is, stick to your principles, do what you have always done to get you where you are, accompanied by always learning, never ever lower your standards, as a person or as a referee.
 
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Ciley Myrus said:
Agree with Markref, i did a veterans game once as a call off and it was a shambles, guys 20 years past their peak (if they ever had a peak) and the cover up for everything they lacked ability wise, was me
I vowed never again, and like Mark, I showed a few cards in a vain effort to keep the peace,
So about 2 years later, got the call off call again, and instantly thought no, then, well, I was not doing anything anyway, maybe my game was a one off.
It was worse, I walked off after 60 mins, told them to stick their match fee and would not do one again if the FIFA referee committee turned up at my door begging with bars of gold
In hindsight I think what a vets game want, is a referee who is as unfit as them and plays to the rules of 20 years ago, so me annoyingly for them always (usually!) being in the right place to call things just wound them up even more, I serious think they would rather the centre circle ref, as long as he did the same for both teams

few years back, I had a good run in a local kids league, few finals, text most Mondays from the league man to say teams been in touch to say what a good game had at weekend, then, 2 seasons ago, start of season was crazy, nothing changed with me but coaches just all of a sudden lost it every week, with me, opponents, own team, the works
near every game I had coaches away, reports re parents behaviour, more reds on park than I had before, then all of a sudden no more appointments came through for a few weeks. Eventually I phoned the league and was told "too many complaints about you, we dont want to use you anymore"
Which in reality meant "we are not taking your reports seriously/and/or CBA to do anything about it"
Fine with me, as above, I have no desire to officiate in a league who wont support me, (not once was I asked about any report or asked to a meeting etc)

That league folded 2 years ago as the better teams were fed up of the nonsense and slowly one by one drifted to other leagues.

I think my moral of the story is, stick to your principles, do what you have always done to get you where you are, accompanied by always learning, never ever lower your standards, as a person or as a referee.
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I find it unbelievable that a league would not support a ref who is doing his job while letting teams get away with bad behaviour.
I’ve not had to report anything yet but I hope I get supported when I do.
That’s just crazy.
I get offered a lot more games than I can do, so I assume most other refs do too; you’d think we would be looked after.
 
Reading these stories, I find it perplexing that league's encourage poor behaviour. That may not be their intention, but it is the outcome. Stop appointing a referee because the players complain that their behaviour that's outside of the LOTG isn't accepted or acted upon by the ref, astounding.
 
One of the worst games ever did violence wise was a pre season vets v pub team OA, very good to start with but then just one tackle at a corner and bang, the game went south...Some older guy in the Vets team didn't threaten punch someone or have some handbags, it was BANG, lights out....Very nasty situation, not against me, just 2 teams who grew more aggressive as the game went on...Some would of abandoned but we got through... just
 
Abeverley said:
I find it unbelievable that a league would not support a ref who is doing his job while letting teams get away with bad behaviour.
I’ve not had to report anything yet but I hope I get supported when I do.
That’s just crazy.
I get offered a lot more games than I can do, so I assume most other refs do too; you’d think we would be looked after.
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For me to go from sending them the occasional caution to what became an industrial strength envelope of paperwork every week must have meant one of two things, either I had suddenly lost the plot (just in this one league mind) or, teams behaviour had went awol
No questions asked, league decided it was me

On the flip side, another league I do, law of averages say you cant keep everybody happy all the time well, another team at one point where not too impressed one day when i handed out 7/8 cards to them in the one game, well, I was given their cup tie 2 weeks later. Noticeably the team behaved a lot better, cant recall the exact score but it was something like 5-4 to them and no cards, coach thought I was a different person. No mate, your team behaved properly and as such I never had to apply sanctions, which in turn made for an all round better game.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
For me to go from sending them the occasional caution to what became an industrial strength envelope of paperwork every week must have meant one of two things, either I had suddenly lost the plot (just in this one league mind) or, teams behaviour had went awol
No questions asked, league decided it was me.
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I always got a mention at Managers meetings on my Sunday League...... GOOD, they were kn0bs, I was just the p1ssed off babysitter!!!
 
Quick true story, about 15 year ago long before emails/scanners etc, it was standard for refs in our local league to drop into the pub post match, quick chat with other refs about the game, but more so, to hand in team lines to the league sec, who would be in the pub, and also expecting a drink from his refs, who were all trying to butter him up, to get a good game next week, anyways..

I never usually stopped in, but one day i did, sec must have been at toilet or bar or something because we missed each other but he was sitting in booth behind me, unaware that I was in.....in the booth was the chat about next weeks big league decider, and egged on with a few drinks from the table, the sec was being encouraged to reveal the name of the ref for next week.....

"xxxxxxxxxxxxx"(me) he said eventually....

"what, you dont like him!!! " was the common response from those gathered round

"no" said xxxxx "he is a f-ing wee c*** !!!!! " went on the sec......"But he is my best f-ing referee" !!!


praise indeed :( :)
 
Hehe, good story Miley!

Used to love listening to the team huddles......something like............ 'Look, it's this f'kin cnut again, watch your f'kin language, and FFS don't call him anything or swear in his face, he will send you off..... You've been warned!!! Job done for me!!!! ;)
 
markref said:
. I don't take constant dissent from players, and they don't like it.
Last week I had 6 cautions in a game on a veterans' league where there are never usually any cautions. Four of these were for showing dissent.
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This afternoon I had a game local vs next county over.

Away team... 6 cautions, 4 for dissent.

Dissent is utterly nonsense this season unfortunately.
 
Last season I did 2 Sunday leagues alternating, this season I’m only doing one. The other league have a referee’s meeting this morning to discuss respect and discipline. It will be interesting to see what is reported, because there aren’t many senior refs on the league so games that should really be done by a L5 are having to be done by L7 referees with too little experience. One of these was assaulted a while ago.
The league are trialling sin bins, but I’m not sure they’re working well, probably because refs aren’t using them early enough so by the time they do it doesn’t help.
 
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