Rather depressing article on the BBC website....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/46208857?__twitter_impression=true
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/46208857?__twitter_impression=true
Depressing
- Thread starter Ben448844
- Start date
The culture of abuse towards the referee is engrained in the game at all levels unfortunately. It's a real source of shame that it's been allowed to enter and remain in the game over the years/decades. Other sports have ensured that it hasn't been allowed to encroach into their sport by having a much lower tolerance level. Footballs tolerance level for foul language and poor behaviour has traditionally been far too high hence where we are now.
At least referee abuse is in the public eye currently and hopefully the game will take advantage of this to make tangible progress on the current issues
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
I fear giving exposure to the horrific treatment that referee's can endure only adds fuel to the fire.
Low life amoebas thrive off copy catting.
And worse, someone always wants to go one better/worse.
Low life amoebas thrive off copy catting.
And worse, someone always wants to go one better/worse.
But exposure brings it into the public domain which in turn brings pressure to actually do something about it. It's the junior age groups who need further education regarding how to treat officials and it's the governing bodies and referees who need to ensure that a strict 'zero tolerance' of dissent etc is enforced. In a generation's time we may well see improvements then. Forget OA football,the behaviour traits are already in place. Huge effort rewuired for very little gain,concentrate on the kids and new coaches
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Its certainly more society related than football specific. Any kids/teens answer to anything is "who the f are you to tell me what to do", be that to parent, shop keeper, teacher, police, referee, social worker, even the postie. Its a lack of respect in generation, there is so much rights, equality, discrimination, and so on that the younger generation feel untouchable, as to lament them means picking on them, and, that's just not on 
It stems from the lack of social interaction we have these days, everything is done/communicated online, it's entirely possible to go days without contact from another human being and still survive, you don't even need to go to the shop, your shopping comes to your door, meaning you missing out on please, thanks, counting your change, the challenge of picking the ripest fruit, thinking about bb dates, packing your bag so you can carry it home safely, learning patience whilst in queue, you miss out on general public, saying "sorry" or being told "sorry " if you accidently mow the trolley into someone or have it done to you,,
well that's my theory anyway
It stems from the lack of social interaction we have these days, everything is done/communicated online, it's entirely possible to go days without contact from another human being and still survive, you don't even need to go to the shop, your shopping comes to your door, meaning you missing out on please, thanks, counting your change, the challenge of picking the ripest fruit, thinking about bb dates, packing your bag so you can carry it home safely, learning patience whilst in queue, you miss out on general public, saying "sorry" or being told "sorry " if you accidently mow the trolley into someone or have it done to you,,
well that's my theory anyway
Its certainly more society related than football specific. Any kids/teens answer to anything is "who the f are you to tell me what to do", be that to parent, shop keeper, teacher, police, referee, social worker, even the postie. Its a lack of respect in generation, there is so much rights, equality, discrimination, and so on that the younger generation feel untouchable, as to lament them means picking on them, and, that's just not on
It stems from the lack of social interaction we have these days, everything is done/communicated online, it's entirely possible to go days without contact from another human being and still survive, you don't even need to go to the shop, your shopping comes to your door, meaning you missing out on please, thanks, counting your change, the challenge of picking the ripest fruit, thinking about bb dates, packing your bag so you can carry it home safely, learning patience whilst in queue, you miss out on general public, saying "sorry" or being told "sorry " if you accidently mow the trolley into someone or have it done to you,,
well that's my theory anyway
I agree to an extent but 25 years ago there was no mobile phones or social media etc but there was plenty of abuse towards referees! The profile of the ref needs raising and tolerances of poor behaviour at junior levels reducing to zero. We've tried 'managing' dissent, conflict etc for years but it does not solve the issue, it just gets you through the individual game. I've said it on here a few times, get rid of 'game management' and all that nonsense and pandering to players and apply the laws on behavioural issues towards the referee with absolute strictness and authority. Let's actually deal with the issue collectively instead of trying to manage it, which is just another way of accepting it
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
Am from an age where there was no internet or mobile phones, and indeed we did play jackets for goals until either there was no light left, or mum had called the last one standing in to bed.
The ball would go in xx garden and we knew it would be fine to go get it, it went in xxx garden and we knew what her reaction would be, we learned to pick each other up when we were hurt, we learned to laugh at each others shameful overhead kick efforts, we learned when the local hardman was on his way to try to either play, or ruin the game, we developed all kinds of social skills, blissfully unaware of them at the time
today, kid turn up in sponsored trackies to the 4g expecting the janny to have the gates open and the dressing room warm and the nets up and the flags out. When I played, it was us kids who put the nets up and swept the room, we would never think about trashing the pavilion or damaging the open public park, it was ours and we took pride in it.
todays referee at kids football is the man who is out to tell kids what to do but, the kids have their own game, of, push him as far as we can cos really we know there is hee haw he can do about it.
The ball would go in xx garden and we knew it would be fine to go get it, it went in xxx garden and we knew what her reaction would be, we learned to pick each other up when we were hurt, we learned to laugh at each others shameful overhead kick efforts, we learned when the local hardman was on his way to try to either play, or ruin the game, we developed all kinds of social skills, blissfully unaware of them at the time
today, kid turn up in sponsored trackies to the 4g expecting the janny to have the gates open and the dressing room warm and the nets up and the flags out. When I played, it was us kids who put the nets up and swept the room, we would never think about trashing the pavilion or damaging the open public park, it was ours and we took pride in it.
todays referee at kids football is the man who is out to tell kids what to do but, the kids have their own game, of, push him as far as we can cos really we know there is hee haw he can do about it.
Must be the first thread for which I'd agree with pretty much everything said!
FIFA are only interested in how much money the game is making
They couldn't give a hoot about what happens outside the global eye. As an organisation, they quite literally make me sick
FIFA are only interested in how much money the game is making
They couldn't give a hoot about what happens outside the global eye. As an organisation, they quite literally make me sick
I agree but rugby (both codes) doesn't have these issues because it doesn't allow such behaviour towards the referee. Boxing is the same. I agree with all the social points you make but football has allowed this culture to grow and referees from the top level facilitate it. How can we change this culture currently when we're accepting it and trying to manage it? I'd love the laws to be applied for dissent etc strictly from the top down. Any swearing or aggression at all to a ref, straightvyellow minimum. Forget tolerance levels, mandatory sanctions. We currently accept the abuse and therefore inadvertently encourage it
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
It is a very valid point that we (all?) insist a moving ball at a free kick is retaken, we all caution (apart from Mr Atkinson!) for jersey off after a goal and the eagle eyed amongst us don't like a fleck of silver on either finger, ear or round neck, however we are quite happy to have every obscenity thrown at us, and sometimes a few times, before we even consider a sanction, far less a red?
(and I include myself in that)
(and I include myself in that)
I had 3 attempted assaults, one was a turned down penalty on the final whistle, always a terse event, both ways.
2nd was partly my own fault having said something under my breath, with massive provocation, and he heard what I said! oops!
3rd was an umpa lumpa player who I’d sent off
2nd was partly my own fault having said something under my breath, with massive provocation, and he heard what I said! oops!
3rd was an umpa lumpa player who I’d sent off
That was an immediate thing I picked up also. That exact scenario was brought up on our course: anything like that, just abandon the game and get the police involved.
I tend to agree with you on this. There are social issues but football stands out, in so many ways, as an event where offensive behaviour is almost considered part of the game and tolerated much more than in other circumstances. For goodness sake, we have segregation at senior football matches - is there any other regular situation where crowds are allowed together but kept apart?
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
We as refs have a real problem now. If we act on our own individually to try to stamp out dissent, we get singled out. We know our RDOs, refsecs, leagues aren’t comfortable with it. We know that if we apply the laws on dissent - rather than game management - we will harm our promotion prospects.
If we can get rid of the prof foul, the backpass, change the offside rule, we can get rid of dissent... but ot has to come from the top down. If not Fifa, Uefa could take a stand, or a country FA could - there’s now a clear law divide between the top tiers and the rest. An FA could easily change the guidance for the whole of the non-prof game (if the TV has to have dissent for the €).
I had 3 attempted assaults, one was a turned down penalty on the final whistle, always a terse event, both ways.
2nd was partly my own fault having said something under my breath, with massive provocation, and he heard what I said! oops!
3rd was an umpa lumpa player who I’d sent off
I've had one 'physical contact with the referee'. The article also highlighted a Sheffield based ref who had been assaulted in the Sunday Leagues. Twice Ive thought about finishing so far in my 14 month spell as a ref. Once was during a match where I was threatened. It was one of my first games and I'd report it now but at the time I was new and didn't want to draw attention to myself and I didn't feel threatened by him so let it pass by (I have contributed to further abuse to another ref by doing that). The whole situation just felt like nonsense I didn't need in my life, I'm not there for the cash! Second time was an issue with a coach a few weeks ago. You know the type, claims to be a professional coach (he's a rotund chap to put it politely and no club would have him with his behaviour anyway!), shouts "AAAY" every tackle or aerial challenge demanding a free kick. I sent him to the car park eventually. Again,the abuse didn't bother me it was the constant questioning of my decisions and authority that I found hard to accept, because I also questioned his ability in my own mind. He waited outside the changing room after the game, knocked on the door and said "it's been 10 mins so I can speak to you now". I told him I was only going to communicate with him in the manner in which he communicates with me and that I won't spend any of my time shouting and swearing at another person over a football match and left him to it. The whole thing was pathetic from start to finish but what gets to me is that he will continue to behave like that and there's nothing I can do to prevent him doing so. I can't even give him my opinion of himself and tell him a few home truths about his ability and tactics because we aren't allowed to do that,and rightly so!
Is that really so?
My county has backed me and has told me to continue clamping down on any verbal offences and they will continue to deal with it fully. When I had an offensive language incident recently, my county, ref's officer and league officer all backed me and dealt with the incident.
When I was assessed back in August, I was commended for dishing out cautions for dissent and was particularly praised for giving one player two cautions followed by a red for dissent within five minutes of each offence occurring.
I've never felt my promotion prospects are at risk from dealing with dissent, if anything, the opposite - they take a dim view of permitting dissent.
I'd be very disappointed if where you're at, it is as you say, as that would undermine refereeing.
I know i missed a foul on a player early in a game a few weeks back. Moments later, i penalized the same player for a very similar foul. This drew a frustrated, but aggressive F Off in my direction
I beckoned the player and his captain in and said, 'if he so much as breathes in my direction again, he'll be off'. They both seemed to get it that i shown leniency (C2) mitigated by my mistake in the build up, but it's bothered me since that i didn't send him packing
The team in question normally win our premier league and i felt that whilst i effectively managed a difficult game to a satisfactory outcome, i did feel that i'd done their league rivals a diservice.
On what planet do we even debate tolerating such an outburst, albeit momentary in nature?
I beckoned the player and his captain in and said, 'if he so much as breathes in my direction again, he'll be off'. They both seemed to get it that i shown leniency (C2) mitigated by my mistake in the build up, but it's bothered me since that i didn't send him packing
The team in question normally win our premier league and i felt that whilst i effectively managed a difficult game to a satisfactory outcome, i did feel that i'd done their league rivals a diservice.
On what planet do we even debate tolerating such an outburst, albeit momentary in nature?