The Ref Stop

Debut Season Advice

K

kje2198

New Member
Hi All,

I have had some contact with local leagues about registering with them for next season however I am after some advice. I appreciate this is quite niche as it is mainly related to Northants CFA.
I have a few colleagues at work that are also referees/involved in refereeing in other capacities and one of the Sunday leagues (I would like to do Saturdays to aim for promotion from 7-6, although travel with work/family commitments maybe a struggle to do sats and suns this year especially). I had looked to sign up with I have been told to steer clear of due to high numbers of referee abuse. I know that getting the odd bad game is part and parcel of the job and every league has good and bad teams however from chats with them it has somewhat put me off some of the leagues due to hearing such negativity around them, even though they have the most local teams to me so travel could be quite useful. If anyone Northants based could advise on different leagues/their reputations (preferably OA) it would be greatly appreciated.

Otherwise I can’t wait to begin the new season after completing some pre season games I definitely feel like I have the “referee bug” albeit I look forward to/slightly nervous for the step up to OA refereeing.
 
The Ref Stop
kje2198 said:
Hi All,

I have had some contact with local leagues about registering with them for next season however I am after some advice. I appreciate this is quite niche as it is mainly related to Northants CFA.
I have a few colleagues at work that are also referees/involved in refereeing in other capacities and one of the Sunday leagues (I would like to do Saturdays to aim for promotion from 7-6, although travel with work/family commitments maybe a struggle to do sats and suns this year especially). I had looked to sign up with I have been told to steer clear of due to high numbers of referee abuse. I know that getting the odd bad game is part and parcel of the job and every league has good and bad teams however from chats with them it has somewhat put me off some of the leagues due to hearing such negativity around them, even though they have the most local teams to me so travel could be quite useful. If anyone Northants based could advise on different leagues/their reputations (preferably OA) it would be greatly appreciated.

Otherwise I can’t wait to begin the new season after completing some pre season games I definitely feel like I have the “referee bug” albeit I look forward to/slightly nervous for the step up to OA refereeing.
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I learned my trade on both the Nene Sunday League and the Saturday Combination.
The Nene Sunday league is a Sunday league, so unfortunately there will always be rare incidents of referee abuse of varying severity, but they are good at dealing with it. I honestly can't see that there are likely to be many better Sunday league's in the country for what they do for their referees.
The Saturday combination has a slightly more professional feel to it (although only slightly at the lowest levels).

I honestly don't think I've ever experienced anything too bad, but I have experienced things that we shouldn't have to.

What I'm about to say is extremely controversial, but I think some (AND NOT ALL) cases of referee abuse aren't aided by the way the referee handles themselves. No, regardless of how they handle themselves, they don't deserve to be abused, I'm not saying that, but I think if you go about the job with a little bit of humility, chat to people, hold your hands up if you may have made a mistake, then you reduce your chances of abuse. You do not completely eliminate it, and it will still happen to some.

If you need any Northants specific advice, feel free to drop me a PM
 
RefereeX said:
What I'm about to say is extremely controversial, but I think some (AND NOT ALL) cases of referee abuse aren't aided by the way the referee handles themselves. No, regardless of how they handle themselves, they don't deserve to be abused, I'm not saying that, but I think if you go about the job with a little bit of humility, chat to people, hold your hands up if you may have made a mistake, then you reduce your chances of abuse. You do not completely eliminate it, and it will still happen to some.
Click to expand...

I have to say, I agree with this. I talk to players in my games, proactively try and prevent offences ("steady steady, nothing silly lads, eyes on the ball (when it's dropping in the air etc)), and find this helps. I occasionally hear from teams as well that referees that don't communicate are the ones they don't enjoy having.

They want a referee that seems human and will tell them why they've committed an offence ("it's a trip chap, nothing reckless or anything so it's just a foul. Don't turn it into a reckless foul next time though"). And on we go to the next phase of play.

If a referee doesn't communicate, or communicate in the right way, they don't help themselves.
 
wazztie16 said:
I have to say, I agree with this. I talk to players in my games, proactively try and prevent offences ("steady steady, nothing silly lads, eyes on the ball (when it's dropping in the air etc)), and find this helps. I occasionally hear from teams as well that referees that don't communicate are the ones they don't enjoy having.

They want a referee that seems human and will tell them why they've committed an offence ("it's a trip chap, nothing reckless or anything so it's just a foul. Don't turn it into a reckless foul next time though"). And on we go to the next phase of play.

If a referee doesn't communicate, or communicate in the right way, they don't help themselves.
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I tried this a few times a while back.

One team complained to my then CFA that i was "coaching" and it wasn't helpful.

You couldn't make it up.

I'm of the ilk i stay quiet mainly (wrongly?) but is it for me to tell teams how to tacle / beahve beofre they do it etc? I don't want them telling me how to ref!
 
Kent Ref said:
I tried this a few times a while back.

One team complained to my then CFA that i was "coaching" and it wasn't helpful.

You couldn't make it up.

I'm of the ilk i stay quiet mainly (wrongly?) but is it for me to tell teams how to tacle / beahve beofre they do it etc? I don't want them telling me how to ref!
Click to expand...

Could you have been being too full on? Too much talking? It's about judging how much to say and when. If it's nice and free flowing and everyone is playing ball (pardon the pun), then I'll not be too involved. But if it's a period where I could lose match control because I've had the tackles start coming in, then I'll raise my profile.

Also things like first few corners/free kicks into the penalty area and I'll make my presence known. Including mentioning any NAR's I have, telling players that are being a nuisance that the NAR's are watching as well. This can massively help.

You just have to work out when to get involved and when to stay out the way.
 
RefereeX said:
but I think if you go about the job with a little bit of humility, chat to people, hold your hands up if you may have made a mistake, then you reduce your chances of abuse. You do not completely eliminate it, and it will still happen to some.
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I very much disagree with the gist of this. guess you have already pre-empted the disagreement and addressed in bold what we all agree on but.... Asking to do all those things with the goal of reducing referee abuse, then we are looking at this the wrong way. We should do all those things because that's what a good referee does and it is our responsibility.

And you are right, it is controversial. Imagine a similar advise to reduce DV. NONE of the responsibility should be on the victims.
 
one said:
I very much disagree with the gist of this. guess you have already pre-empted the disagreement and addressed in bold what we all agree on but.... Asking to do all those things with the goal of reducing referee abuse, then we are looking at this the wrong way. We should do all those things because that's what a good referee does and it is our responsibility.

And you are right, it is controversial. Imagine a similar advise to reduce DV. NONE of the responsibility should be on the victims.
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Agree, the responsibility shouldn't be on the victims. I'm saying that if you take steps to look after yourself also, you reduce your chances.
Think of it as like covering your PIN at an ATM. You shouldn't have to, but if someone's behind you you might choose to to protect yourself.

(Yes. that's a very simplistic argument - I know, but it's not totally irrelevant.)

Some referees have a very arrogant outlook towards it. That doesn't mean they deserve to be the victims of abuse, but I'm afraid it's just a matter of fact that these referees are more likely to suffer abuse than some others.
 
RefereeX said:
Agree, the responsibility shouldn't be on the victims. I'm saying that if you take steps to look after yourself also, you reduce your chances.
Think of it as like covering your PIN at an ATM. You shouldn't have to, but if someone's behind you you might choose to to protect yourself.

(Yes. that's a very simplistic argument - I know, but it's not totally irrelevant.)

Some referees have a very arrogant outlook towards it. That doesn't mean they deserve to be the victims of abuse, but I'm afraid it's just a matter of fact that these referees are more likely to suffer abuse than some others.
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My point is, how we should referee should never appear in the same paragraph with referee abuse. Not even adjacent paragraphs. It just send the wrong message.

A good referee is not arrogant. A good referee is humble. A good referee owns his/her mistakes and that's the end of it. It's shouldn't be if you do these then... Similarly, using my analogy a good partner is sympathetic, a good partner is compromising, etc etc... no conditions added. All those things are the right thing to do in general and are not (shouldn't be) done to avoid consequences. Not sure how covering your PIN is a good analogy as it is definitely done to avoid consequences, otherwise it's not needed.

Anyway I think you know what I mean and I know what you mean is not intended negatively. I just don't want it to be misinterpreted.
 
Kent Ref said:
I tried this a few times a while back.

One team complained to my then CFA that i was "coaching" and it wasn't helpful.

You couldn't make it up.

I'm of the ilk i stay quiet mainly (wrongly?) but is it for me to tell teams how to tacle / beahve beofre they do it etc? I don't want them telling me how to ref!
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Have you worked e.g. as AR for referees a few levels higher than you?

If you are unsure about how to communicate with players that is the way to learn.

In my experience players at all levels appreciate proactive refereeing. But not coaching.

Don’t say “don’t foul” to a player. That’s coaching. Do say “careful with the hands” to two players battling for the ball. That’s smart proactive refereeing with no surprises that makes giving a DFK a few seconds later really easy for you and the match.
 
Kent Ref said:
I tried this a few times a while back.

One team complained to my then CFA that i was "coaching" and it wasn't helpful.

You couldn't make it up.
Click to expand...
What was it exactly that you tried?

Kent Ref said:
I'm of the ilk i stay quiet mainly (wrongly?) but is it for me to tell teams how to tacle / beahve beofre they do it etc? I don't want them telling me how to ref!
Click to expand...
It's not about telling them how to tackle or behave. As Santa says sometimes it's useful to communicate the offence your about to call, player using arms. "Watch the arms" is a great example.

One of two things happens 1) they let go. 2) they don't and you call a foul, sold by the pre communication.

Other ways it can work, is to communicate non-offences. I use "nothing there" quite a bit. What that does is communicate I have seen, but haven't seen a foul. For some reason sometimes saying nothing comes across as indecisive, or incorrect decision making. Communicating, says I've seen and I'm happy keep playing. They might not say it but generally players and managers appreciate this type of communication, because at the very least you are communicating.

The last thing to be mindful of is explaining decisions. Blowing the whistle, pointing in a direction and not offering explanation where sought just generally rubs people up the wrong way.

Not saying you do these things but just putting them out there of ways of when and how to communicate.
 
RefereeX said:
I learned my trade on both the Nene Sunday League and the Saturday Combination.
The Nene Sunday league is a Sunday league, so unfortunately there will always be rare incidents of referee abuse of varying severity, but they are good at dealing with it. I honestly can't see that there are likely to be many better Sunday league's in the country for what they do for their referees.
The Saturday combination has a slightly more professional feel to it (although only slightly at the lowest levels).

I honestly don't think I've ever experienced anything too bad, but I have experienced things that we shouldn't have to.

What I'm about to say is extremely controversial, but I think some (AND NOT ALL) cases of referee abuse aren't aided by the way the referee handles themselves. No, regardless of how they handle themselves, they don't deserve to be abused, I'm not saying that, but I think if you go about the job with a little bit of humility, chat to people, hold your hands up if you may have made a mistake, then you reduce your chances of abuse. You do not completely eliminate it, and it will still happen to some.

If you need any Northants specific advice, feel free to drop me a PM
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Agree. I've refereed hundreds of games and have only felt verbally violated twice and have never really detected any real physical threat
RefSupportUK would have you believe we all get abused but we don't.... that's me getting chinned first game back now that I've said that :eek:
 
one said:
My point is, how we should referee should never appear in the same paragraph with referee abuse. Not even adjacent paragraphs. It just send the wrong message.

A good referee is not arrogant. A good referee is humble. A good referee owns his/her mistakes and that's the end of it. It's shouldn't be if you do these then... Similarly, using my analogy a good partner is sympathetic, a good partner is compromising, etc etc... no conditions added. All those things are the right thing to do in general and are not (shouldn't be) done to avoid consequences. Not sure how covering your PIN is a good analogy as it is definitely done to avoid consequences, otherwise it's not needed.

Anyway I think you know what I mean and I know what you mean is not intended negatively. I just don't want it to be misinterpreted.
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I think you're being a bit naive TBF
If you're not competent at anything in life, you're gonna get stick. We get a bit of grief for being half decent, but I'd give up if I was useless
The other thing is referees doing games they're not up to. That amounts to the same thing. People are entitled to expect the required standard for any given level and they're entitled to complain or protest if they don't get it
 
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RefereeX said:
I learned my trade on both the Nene Sunday League and the Saturday Combination.
The Nene Sunday league is a Sunday league, so unfortunately there will always be rare incidents of referee abuse of varying severity, but they are good at dealing with it. I honestly can't see that there are likely to be many better Sunday league's in the country for what they do for their referees.
The Saturday combination has a slightly more professional feel to it (although only slightly at the lowest levels).

I honestly don't think I've ever experienced anything too bad, but I have experienced things that we shouldn't have to.

What I'm about to say is extremely controversial, but I think some (AND NOT ALL) cases of referee abuse aren't aided by the way the referee handles themselves. No, regardless of how they handle themselves, they don't deserve to be abused, I'm not saying that, but I think if you go about the job with a little bit of humility, chat to people, hold your hands up if you may have made a mistake, then you reduce your chances of abuse. You do not completely eliminate it, and it will still happen to some.

If you need any Northants specific advice, feel free to drop me a PM
Click to expand...
I am registered to the Nene currently but ideally want to try and keep quite local (luckily there’s quite a lot of teams (6/7) near me). I did have a think about the combination and other Saturday leagues to try and get the AR requirements for promotion however, travel would be an issue this year and I’m cautious about trying to do too much to soon
 
The Senior Youth League appoints assistants for midweek floodlit games which will offer you some opportunities. I did several stints on it, and that was invaluable when I first started taking refereeing seriously in the early 2000s as otherwise I was on my own all the time.

I only stopped as I changed counties.

Also be aware that the quarter finals of the County Junior and Lower Junior cups often feature ARs which might give you another bite.
 
Big Cat said:
I think you're being a bit naive TBF
If you're not competent at anything in life, you're gonna get stick. We get a bit of grief for being half decent, but I'd give up if I was useless
The other thing is referees doing games they're not up to. That amounts to the same thing. People are entitled to expect the required standard for any given level and they're entitled to complain or protest if they don't get it
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Define 'stick'.
Are you saying if someone is not good at their job and get abused, we should accept it as justified?

Your second paragraph is a different discussion altogether. If a referee is given a game they are not up to who is to blame? And in any case who defines the required standard. Most of the moaners and complainers I get in my games will be complaining even if they had a FIFA referee. 😄
 
one said:
Define 'stick'.
Are you saying if someone is not good at their job and get abused, we should accept it as justified?

Your second paragraph is a different discussion altogether. If a referee is given a game they are not up to who is to blame? And in any case who defines the required standard. Most of the moaners and complainers I get in my games will be complaining even if they had a FIFA referee. 😄
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Once in nearly 200 games, I faced abuse. But I followed protocol and kept my composure until the person left, then raised it with the FA, and that ended there for me.

However, constant nagging, questioning my competence, and confidence-draining behaviour are all too common, but not abuse. Lots of dissent and yellow cards later, you realize some walk a fine line with their frustration.

Many might quit due to this, even calling it abuse, but it's not.

Strong communication is key. Stopping the game, identifying troublemakers, and issuing clear, public warnings can be effective. A public rebuke isn't just yelling "stop it." It's loudly reminding the offender of their behaviour and the consequences if it continues.
 
OldNavyRef said:
Once in nearly 200 games, I faced abuse. But I followed protocol and kept my composure until the person left, then raised it with the FA, and that ended there for me.

However, constant nagging, questioning my competence, and confidence-draining behaviour are all too common, but not abuse. Lots of dissent and yellow cards later, you realize some walk a fine line with their frustration.

Many might quit due to this, even calling it abuse, but it's not.

Strong communication is key. Stopping the game, identifying troublemakers, and issuing clear, public warnings can be effective. A public rebuke isn't just yelling "stop it." It's loudly reminding the offender of their behaviour and the consequences if it continues.
Click to expand...
Great post;)
 
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