Corner warnings

[Ben448844]

Ultimately I think this approach is a consequence of 'over managing' which goes on at the top level. Obviously we understand why this happens, we'd all probably do the same. But it's a terrible look for the game. Set pieces already take forever.

Other examples of over managing are ridiculously soft defensive free kicks by ARs. This has enabled defenders diving as they know a free kick is guaranteed. And I've seen 3 CL games where the ref has got in the way of a player and they've stopped the game for a drop ball restart. The ball has not hit them and they cannot stop the game in law. But over managing kicks in to prevent controversy and they circumnavigate the laws to do so (funny how that's an offence for players but not for referees )

 

[JamesL]

Disagree that a yellow was given because it's a friendly. How many times have you ever seen a yellow card given in this circumstance?

I was referring to the fact she warned the player again, at the same stoppage, which also never happens.
Although I hadnt watched the match and have since read that she warned the captain so she was obviously going through some sort of stepped approach. But in any event either scenario is unorthodox.

 

[Ben448844]

I was referring to the fact she warned the player again, at the same stoppage, which also never happens.
Although I hadnt watched the match and have since read that she warned the captain so she was obviously going through some sort of stepped approach. But in any event either scenario is unorthodox.

Yeah she did the stepped approach at a corner which seemed a little bizzare to me. It's not there to prevent careless challenges so why use it in that circumstance?

I think she struggled a bit throughout to be honest. Her body language was incredibly serious and if I'm honest I'm not sure she had the respect of the players. She's clearly an excellent referee and maybe she will soften her approach as she continues. She's a trailblazer.

 

[santa sangria]

Fifa fingers !

 

[RustyRef]

Yeah she did the stepped approach at a corner which seemed a little bizzare to me. It's not there to prevent careless challenges so why use it in that circumstance?

I think she struggled a bit throughout to be honest. Her body language was incredibly serious and if I'm honest I'm not sure she had the respect of the players. She's clearly an excellent referee and maybe she will soften her approach as she continues. She's a trailblazer.

She is a trailblazer, no doubt about that, but is she an elite FIFA referee in the men's game? This will no doubt be controversial, but I think the undoubted push to get referees from underrepresented groups has put huge pressure on certain referees. Stephanie Frappart is one, despite this being a friendly she looked really stressed, incredibly serious, and generally looking like she really didn't want to be there.

Sam Allison is another example, no doubt a very good referee but he was pushed much too far too fast. I watched him referee televised games last season where he struggled, but then saw him in the flesh and I just felt sorry for him. His body language came across as a broken referee, devoid of any confidence, and he got 3 out of 4 KMDs completely wrong (which favoured my team, so no bitterness). I'll be honest and say that he was the referee I referred to before around warning at every corner, but I don't really blame him for that as it is clearly what he has been told to do. I've been there as a referee where your confidence is shattered, and I don't take any pleasure from seeing fellow referees experiencing the same.

 

[Ben448844]

She is a trailblazer, no doubt about that, but is she an elite FIFA referee in the men's game? This will no doubt be controversial, but I think the undoubted push to get referees from underrepresented groups has put huge pressure on certain referees. Stephanie Frappart is one, despite this being a friendly she looked really stressed, incredibly serious, and generally looking like she really didn't want to be there.

Sam Allison is another example, no doubt a very good referee but he was pushed much too far too fast. I watched him referee televised games last season where he struggled, but then saw him in the flesh and I just felt sorry for him. His body language came across as a broken referee, devoid of any confidence, and he got 3 out of 4 KMDs completely wrong (which favoured my team, so no bitterness). I'll be honest and say that he was the referee I referred to before around warning at every corner, but I don't really blame him for that as it is clearly what he has been told to do. I've been there as a referee where your confidence is shattered, and I don't take any pleasure from seeing fellow referees experiencing the same.

Agree that she isn't an Elite referee in the men's game. I commented earlier in the thread how serious she looked and you could tell the players were not happy with her and didn't trust her decision making. The yellows in the first half were unexpected in a friendly.

One benefit of VAR (of which there aren't many in my opinion, and I accept I've done a 180° about turn on VAR), is that there's no need to over manage. Just shout at the players before every corner that VAR will be watching them and let them get on with it. At the moment they tell people not to hold and then ignore the holding offenses that inevitably occur that they've warned them not to do. Self defeating nonsense. There was a big push on all this year ago and only Mike Dean actually followed the protocol and gave 2 pens to City v Stoke in one game for holding in the box. That initiative quietly disputed like every other initiative does.

 

[DavidObs]

Yeah she did the stepped approach at a corner which seemed a little bizzare to me. It's not there to prevent careless challenges so why use it in that circumstance?

I think she struggled a bit throughout to be honest. Her body language was incredibly serious and if I'm honest I'm not sure she had the respect of the players. She's clearly an excellent referee and maybe she will soften her approach as she continues. She's a trailblazer.

I have no problem with any situation in a game adopting a stepped approach - though has to be appropriate.

 

[OnlyUseMeWhistle]

She is a trailblazer, no doubt about that, but is she an elite FIFA referee in the men's game? This will no doubt be controversial, but I think the undoubted push to get referees from underrepresented groups has put huge pressure on certain referees. Stephanie Frappart is one, despite this being a friendly she looked really stressed, incredibly serious, and generally looking like she really didn't want to be there.

Sam Allison is another example, no doubt a very good referee but he was pushed much too far too fast. I watched him referee televised games last season where he struggled, but then saw him in the flesh and I just felt sorry for him. His body language came across as a broken referee, devoid of any confidence, and he got 3 out of 4 KMDs completely wrong (which favoured my team, so no bitterness). I'll be honest and say that he was the referee I referred to before around warning at every corner, but I don't really blame him for that as it is clearly what he has been told to do. I've been there as a referee where your confidence is shattered, and I don't take any pleasure from seeing fellow referees experiencing the same.

This honestly makes me sad to read, having met Sam at a Wilts FA event, he seemed very human and approachable in a way some PGMOL officials have not.

But it's also true the whole way down the pyramid where I have met some anxious officials who are being fast tracked. Excellent referees, better than me for sure, but clearly lack support or time needed to build confidence and thrive. It doesn't seem very sustainable.

 

[DavidObs]

This honestly makes me sad to read, having met Sam at a Wilts FA event, he seemed very human and approachable in a way some PGMOL officials have not.

But it's also true the whole way down the pyramid where I have met some anxious officials who are being fast tracked. Excellent referees, better than me for sure, but clearly lack support or time needed to build confidence and thrive. It doesn't seem very sustainable.

In the case of Sam it’s definitely not from lack of support, either directly or indirectly. Yes, it appears clear he has been fast tracked & also appears to lack confidence on occasions, but has it been worth trying with him when time is not on his side - I think so & will be interesting to see how he does during the early part of the new season.

 

[OnlyUseMeWhistle]

I’m the case of Sam it’s definitely not from lack of support, either directly or indirectly. Yes, it appears clear he has been fast tracked & also appears to lack confidence on occasions, but has it been worth trying with him when time is not on his side - I think so & will be interesting to see how he does during the early part of the new season.

Support comes in many forms, I wonder if he's getting the right kind? Do PGMOL employ sports psychologists like the teams do?

 

[DavidObs]

Support comes in many forms, I wonder if he's getting the right kind? Do PGMOL employ sports psychologists like the teams do?

Yes, I understand that this is the case to mirror what happens with the clubs. Whether Sam has used them is unknown.

 

[Runner Ref]

Support comes in many forms, I wonder if he's getting the right kind? Do PGMOL employ sports psychologists like the teams do?

Yep, they have psychologists. But I agree with @RustyRef . Same was pushed far too fast, and often looks out of his depth. And I'd say they've realised that by his lack of Premier League games.

 

[Reffariiii]

It is a real pet hate of mine. I don't mind them going in once early in the game to remind people, but it has got to the point that they are now doing it at almost every corner and it is wasting so much time. I saw it in a game at Hillsborough last season and I reckon, conservatively, that more than 5 minutes were lost to the referee warning players at corners and set pieces.

And to do it twice on the same corner, as Stephanie Frappart did tonight, is ludicrous, just warn them once then if it carries on give either a defensive free kick or a penalty.

I agree. The old school advice was pick any two players at the first corner, pull them out to give a public warning, and then give a defensive FK to prove a point. Still see that happening a lot with referees from smaller European countries.