Controversial Handball & Offside
- Thread starter JH
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one
RefChat Addict
Well my frst thought after 20 seconds of view was "what the...". There is only one team in this game. Then I realised same colours are worn on different body parts of the different teams. Yes the colours are different but are they "distinguishable"?
Law 4:
"The two teams must wear colours that distinguish them from each other"
Law 4:
"The two teams must wear colours that distinguish them from each other"
I see where there might be a handling offense so I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the man who was standing three yards away.
There is certainly a strong case for PIADM from the way the player on the ground keeps the ball between his legs and then swings his leg around in an attempt to stop the opponent from safely playing the ball.
As for the offside offense, it's a pretty clear example of being too quick on the flag. Keep the flag down in that situation until the offside player interferes with play or an opponent!
There is certainly a strong case for PIADM from the way the player on the ground keeps the ball between his legs and then swings his leg around in an attempt to stop the opponent from safely playing the ball.
As for the offside offense, it's a pretty clear example of being too quick on the flag. Keep the flag down in that situation until the offside player interferes with play or an opponent!
I have a question as someone who is outside of the UK. I see this is a playoff final for promotion to level 7. How much AR experience are the officials on the lines likely to have? Is that someone who's probably done 100 games as AR or a rising ref who probably has only done it a dozen or so games?
one
RefChat Addict
On a side note, love the comentory on the offside incident (NOT).
"The ball has gone so close [3 meters] to the person that was offside, you have to give offside"
"There no need to send him off, there is 30 seconds left. He's cost Canvey the game". Canvey was already losing 2-1 with 30 seconds left. And i wasn't its free fro all if there is only 30 seconds left in the game. I have sent mangers and players after the full time whistle.
"The ball has gone so close [3 meters] to the person that was offside, you have to give offside"
"There no need to send him off, there is 30 seconds left. He's cost Canvey the game". Canvey was already losing 2-1 with 30 seconds left. And i wasn't its free fro all if there is only 30 seconds left in the game. I have sent mangers and players after the full time whistle.
I'm not that clear on how to deal with situations whereby a player ends up on the deck smothering the ball. I understand there's a case for an immediate whistle and dropped ball to protect the player on the deck. Then there's a case for PIADM for both the player on the deck and the player kicking at the ball. In this case, the player gets trodden on and I'd argue the defender was therefore fouled before the handball
1. Seemed very harsh, I couldn't see the handball? Was that intentional?
2. Offside. Isn't that actually correct? The guy who went on to receive the ball was onside. That's entirely why we have the wait-and-see policy. I would prefer a better angle for that though, but I don't think the guy who is offside is committing an offence?
Oh wait, I see the AR flagged too early. Oof, poor decision. The keeper seems to be have been influenced by that, seeing how he pulls out of the save to point at the AR. I guess that is a mistake known as 'murdering the referee' behind the scenes?
Controversial. I can see why the managers got angry about things - still not condoning their reactions though.
2. Offside. Isn't that actually correct? The guy who went on to receive the ball was onside. That's entirely why we have the wait-and-see policy. I would prefer a better angle for that though, but I don't think the guy who is offside is committing an offence?
Oh wait, I see the AR flagged too early. Oof, poor decision. The keeper seems to be have been influenced by that, seeing how he pulls out of the save to point at the AR. I guess that is a mistake known as 'murdering the referee' behind the scenes?
Controversial. I can see why the managers got angry about things - still not condoning their reactions though.
D
Deleted member 3014
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No handball & even more so when you see it from the referees angle struggling to see why he gave it, in a scrap like that on the deck it’s impossible to sell any decision just pray the ball gets cleared and carry on with the game.
Error by Lino easily done I did it two weeks ago, it’s instinct to raise the flag especially if your inexperienced, as mentioned play to the whistle, no sympathy for the keeper.
Took sum character from the ref to overrule the Lino he could have took the easy option and gave the offside but FairPlay to him he knew it was on and allowed the goal.
Error by Lino easily done I did it two weeks ago, it’s instinct to raise the flag especially if your inexperienced, as mentioned play to the whistle, no sympathy for the keeper.
Took sum character from the ref to overrule the Lino he could have took the easy option and gave the offside but FairPlay to him he knew it was on and allowed the goal.
The first one if you don't either give a foul to the defender or penalise him for PIADM, once his right hand comes out and scoops the ball you have to give a penalty. I wouldn't be letting it get that far though and would be finding a foul, especially in a game of that magnitude.
For the offside, yes the referee has made a mistake by flagging too early and I suspect the conversation went along the lines of "I've ballsed up, flagged too early and the player who scored was onside". So, rather that the referee overruling the assistant I suspect the assistant has overruled himself. That is a massive decision though and I think most referees would have stuck with penalising the offside offence.
For the offside, yes the referee has made a mistake by flagging too early and I suspect the conversation went along the lines of "I've ballsed up, flagged too early and the player who scored was onside". So, rather that the referee overruling the assistant I suspect the assistant has overruled himself. That is a massive decision though and I think most referees would have stuck with penalising the offside offence.
The first one is definitely handball, and it's a very good spot. I had to replay it a few times to see it. I agree with @one that the colours are too similar.
The second one is a mistake because both attacking players are offside so it doesn't matter whether the forward-most one is active (per the commentary). I think it's a very forgivable error.
The commentators suggesting that the manager being sent off is somehow the referee's fault is ridiculous and irresponsible.
The second one is a mistake because both attacking players are offside so it doesn't matter whether the forward-most one is active (per the commentary). I think it's a very forgivable error.
The commentators suggesting that the manager being sent off is somehow the referee's fault is ridiculous and irresponsible.
Did you mean that both are onside? That might be true, but they certainly are not both offside.
It’s pyramid 7 or 8 I think. Meaning definitely up and coming referees on the line. Not streamed yet. I’m prepared to be corrected but I think L3 is in the middle so it’s likely L4 on the line
Did you mean that both are onside? That might be true, but they certainly are not both offside.
I was basing my view on this angle, assuming (incorrectly it would appear) that the camera was level:
But your capture is a better indication I think.
Yep, step 4 in the non-league pyramid, and promotion play off final to go to step 3. Referee L3 and assistants L4.
Ciley Myrus
RefChat Addict
No handball, find a foul before gets to that stage
Not offside, the flag is purely a signal from AR to ref, nothing else.
Not offside, the flag is purely a signal from AR to ref, nothing else.
Completely agree on the handball and the penalty, but without comms it is nigh on impossible for the referee to wave down the offside flag. He would have to be 100% certain that the flag was incorrect, and from his position I can't see how he could be.
Russell Jones
RefChat Addict
Completely correct, L3 in the middle and L4's on the line. Can't comment on these particular officials but typically, playoff games will be given to those who have performed at the top of the bandings throughout the season. A 'typical' L4 will have had about 20 games on the line this season, and at least 10 in their promotion season from 5 to 4. So, an absolute minimum of 30. However, often this will be someone who has been an L4 for 2-4+ seasons so more likely between 50 and 100 games on the line.
Handball .. definitely and a great spot from a well positioned official. However, like others, finding a prior foul would definitely have been 'safe' refereeing
Offside .. easy mistake to make (despite good positioning) .. once the flag incorrectly goes up there's no good outcome for the officials. The one arrived at is probably least worst.
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
First incident - terrible decision. Yellow player pushes him in the back, kicks him 2 or 3 times while on the ground, stands on his leg, and he gives a foul the OTHER way????
Ok, if you think that you're allowed to kick the crap out of the player on the ground then yeah, I'd agree that he deliberately handled it. But terrible call.
As for the offside, AR stuffed that one up. Early flag - no offence, no interfering with an opponent. Idiot commentator blaming the ref for the coach (I presume?) getting sent off. Well, no, coach is responsible for his own disgusting behaviour.
Ok, if you think that you're allowed to kick the crap out of the player on the ground then yeah, I'd agree that he deliberately handled it. But terrible call.
PIADM? The player on the ground has tried to release the ball. You always need to look at whether he's made an effort to - and if he hasn't, why? The fact that he's being kicked and stood on just might have something to do with it.
As for the offside, AR stuffed that one up. Early flag - no offence, no interfering with an opponent. Idiot commentator blaming the ref for the coach (I presume?) getting sent off. Well, no, coach is responsible for his own disgusting behaviour.