The Ref Stop

communicating with the ref

haywain

haywain

the voice of reason
Level 7 Referee
During my game last night, (asst ref, pre-season), there was a coming together of the yellow defender and stripey attacker as they both chased after a ball played over the top and down the line. The defender had his heel clipped by the attacker and lost his balance, allowing the attacker to continue on past him with the ball.

Imho, and it happened 2 yards in front of me, there was no intent on the part of the attacker and the coming together was accidental.

I said 'accidental' .....a second or so before the referee, who was a good 15/20 yards away from the incident, blew his whistle and gave a free kick to the defender.

Cue attacker saying to the ref, 'even the lino said it was accidental.

Now, had I had a microphone the ref would have heard my 'accidental' and, almost certainly, let play continue. Without that luxury, is there any way that I could have got that msg quickly to the ref. Flag not going up is obviously one indicator but I was wondering if there is a discreet signal that tells the ref, 'don't give it'

Otherwise, I guess that I should have kept my thoughts to myself :)
 
The Ref Stop
haywain said:
During my game last night, (asst ref, pre-season), there was a coming together of the yellow defender and stripey attacker as they both chased after a ball played over the top and down the line. The defender had his heel clipped by the attacker and lost his balance, allowing the attacker to continue on past him with the ball.

Imho, and it happened 2 yards in front of me, there was no intent on the part of the attacker and the coming together was accidental.

I said 'accidental' .....a second or so before the referee, who was a good 15/20 yards away from the incident, blew his whistle and gave a free kick to the defender.

Cue attacker saying to the ref, 'even the lino said it was accidental.

Now, had I had a microphone the ref would have heard my 'accidental' and, almost certainly, let play continue. Without that luxury, is there any way that I could have got that msg quickly to the ref. Flag not going up is obviously one indicator but I was wondering if there is a discreet signal that tells the ref, 'don't give it'

Otherwise, I guess that I should have kept my thoughts to myself :)
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A small wave with your other hand should give him a good indicator, or the old dog walking technique.
It should be your call anyway if it is right in front of you. The other lesson is don't say anything until well after the incident :)
 
ditto don't say anything benches players club officials will slaughter you for it then the referee
 
Ok, so we are going to ignore the obvious then?

Just as an aside, how many times does a player say "fair enough ref, i meant to do that..."....compared to "i never meant it, ref"?
 
They won't say it but normally you can tell when a player goes in by facial expressions and other indicators that they are going in purely to foul a player and cause damage. Even though I've been out on the parks for 2 years I can pick it up when a player's intention is "I'm going to f***ing hurt you" and when it's ":poop: I got that one wrong!"
 
Aled said:
They won't say it but normally you can tell when a player goes in by facial expressions and other indicators that they are going in purely to foul a player and cause damage. Even though I've been out on the parks for 2 years I can pick it up when a player's intention is "I'm going to f***ing hurt you" and when it's ":poop: I got that one wrong!"
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Yes, but my point is that intent doesn't have to be present for a foul to be committed.

In the OP the fact that the contact was accidental doesn't mean it wasn't a foul and that the FK shouldn't have been given.
 
Especially as the attacker will be gaining a huge advantage from his "accidental trip" of the defender.

You could easily substitute the word careless for accidental even, as in essence that is what had happened. :D
 
some interesting replies, gentlemen. thank you for that.

you're absolutely right that there doesn't have to be intent in this situation for it to be a foul, Padfoot.

However, if we break it down with reference to the lotg

'A direct free kick is awarded ...if a player commits....offences in a manner considered by the referee to be careless'

'Careless' means that the player has shown a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge'

unfortunately there is no definition of the word 'challenge' in the lotg

now these two players were both running towards the ball and, in my opinion, were both focused on getting there first. what happened was not a 'challenge' in the sense that i would interpret the word.

in my opinion, to punish the attacker by giving the free kick to the defender was, in this instance, an incorrect decision, albeit honestly made by the referee

clearly everyone is entitled to their own opinion and i guess that the 'certainty' of some of the responses above by people that haven't seen the incident is simply part of the individual make up of the people that made them.
 
The problem, as you point out, with this sort of scenario is you have to see it.
 
haywain said:
'Careless' means that the player has shown a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge'

unfortunately there is no definition of the word 'challenge' in the lotg

now these two players were both running towards the ball and, in my opinion, were both focused on getting there first. what happened was not a 'challenge' in the sense that i would interpret the word.
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How would you define an opponent challenging for the ball in an offside situation?

Are you saying that you wouldn't penalise an attacker for chasing after a ball, along with a defender, when that attacker was in an offside position?
 
This pains me but I'm with Padfoot here.
If a player clips another players ankles unintentionally he's guilty of being careless. So DFK
 
What about if 2 players both going for the ball run straight into each other, that's obviously accidental but is there any foul? In that situation surely you wouldn't penalize either?
 
Padfoot said:
Don't worry.....you'll find it gets easier the more you do it!
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*This doesn't come as RefChat recommendation* :p

In terms of OP - I'd actually say you were slightly in the wrong - although not for the reasons Pad's saying.

Whenever I was in the middle, I'd always ask my assistants to not shout anything than would negate credibility, like you mention. Yes, encourage fair play (hands away, don't foul etc) but not to say 'nothing there' or 'that's fine' etc as I, in the middle and with the whistle, may have either seen or interpreted something in a different manner.

If I'm referee and clearly not giving a foul or looking at you, perfect time for a 'nothing there' shout as that's a superb sell!
 
DanCohen17 said:
*This doesn't come as RefChat recommendation* :p

In terms of OP - I'd actually say you were slightly in the wrong - although not for the reasons Pad's saying.

Whenever I was in the middle, I'd always ask my assistants to not shout anything than would negate credibility, like you mention. Yes, encourage fair play (hands away, don't foul etc) but not to say 'nothing there' or 'that's fine' etc as I, in the middle and with the whistle, may have either seen or interpreted something in a different manner.

If I'm referee and clearly not giving a foul or looking at you, perfect time for a 'nothing there' shout as that's a superb sell!
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Yeah, never mind the fact that it was actually a foul....let's be more concerned about what the ref told you to do than getting the decision right in law!

Honestly Dan, the lengths you'll go to to avoid having to agree with me!
 
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Padfoot said:
Yeah, never mind the fact that it was actually a foul....let's be more concerned about what the ref told you to do than getting the decision right in law!

Honestly Dan, the lengths you'll go to to avoid having to agree with me!
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The old saying, "it's not what you sell, it's how you sell it" comes to mind ;)
 
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