The Ref Stop

Coaches not knowing the LOTG

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spuddy1878

RefChat Addict
Never surprises me almost every week some of the claims from coaches-managers-spectators during a game but today possibly did.

An U14 game a lad is sent to the sin bin, yellow card shown and i pointed towards the side line where coaches gathered.

The manager of the team shouts "whats your decision" so i told him he was going in the sin bin.

He again shouts "well any chance you can give me a clue to whats going on"

I told him i thought the showing of the yellow card and pointing to the side lines was a clue.

Then himself, another parent and im guessing another coach or parent start shouting "you dont show a yellow card for a sin bin, we have been running teams for years"

Didn't even get involved in responding to that one.
 
The Ref Stop
I had a couple of handballs today, both times players thought the restart was an indirect free kick. Do they not watch football?!
 
spuddy1878 said:
Never surprises me almost every week some of the claims from coaches-managers-spectators during a game but today possibly did.

An U14 game a lad is sent to the sin bin, yellow card shown and i pointed towards the side line where coaches gathered.

The manager of the team shouts "whats your decision" so i told him he was going in the sin bin.

He again shouts "well any chance you can give me a clue to whats going on"

I told him i thought the showing of the yellow card and pointing to the side lines was a clue.

Then himself, another parent and im guessing another coach or parent start shouting "you dont show a yellow card for a sin bin, we have been running teams for years"

Didn't even get involved in responding to that one.
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Had to explain why an act of dissent got a bin today, despite having explained it before the game. To be fair to the players, I recognised they were being influenced by their parents and coaches. I spoke to both captains and told them to get their players to focus on the game and we got through with just one more yellow card for kicking the ball away to delay the restart (2nd one in that game, so can't complain about my consistency)
 
I think a lot of it is because they pick up the law as they go along, and then it gets muddled with the mix of referees applying the laws differently.

For example; The new handball law this season had a lot of interesting issues at the start of the season. One team argued with me that any contact with the hand was thus a handling offence. So, I can only guess they got a referee that thought 'sod it' and indeed, penalised every incident of ball to hand.

It's just one of those things. I do appreciate the coaches that attend the county's LOTG seminars though. Not many do, but even so, the ones that do are at least making an effort.
 
afronaut81 said:
The biggest misconception I get is "I got the ball ref how can that be a foul" for a careless/reckless challenge. Don't really know where that one came into common acceptance.
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I think there was always a tendency toward this view but it may also have been influenced at one time by people being incapable of logically parsing a phrase that used to be in the Laws of the Game.

The laws used to say that a direct free kick should be awarded if a player:
tackles an opponent to gain possession of the ball, making contact with the opponent before touching the ball
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By using a complete logical fallacy, that was interpreted by some to mean that a tackle where the player touched the ball before making contact with the player, was therefore not a foul.

This phrase (using a slightly different form of wording) was introduced in 1995 and removed from the Laws in 2008.
 
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I get the some decisions can come down to one mans decision and two referees can give a different decision on the same incident thats fine.

A lot of laws are factual and not subjective, like showing a yellow card for a sin bin.
 
spuddy1878 said:
A lot of laws are factual and not subjective, like showing a yellow card for a sin bin.
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Right, but there are still referees who botch it up even on these things.

Like, I went to watch a game the other day as mine was called off, and when a red card incident occurred, the referee only asked that the player be subbed out, rather than send him off. I ran the line the other day where I was the only AR who followed the sub procedure and the CR wasn't bothered by it.

It sounds silly, but every month our county discipline officer regales us with tales of how referees are 'forgetting' to send players off, or various other incidents that have caused drama or confusion among clubs, so it is more common than we want/think and it just feeds into the misinformation that coaches pick up, especially if it is happening on an unpopular league where the better referees steer clear.
 
Peter Grove said:
I think there was always a tendency toward this view but it may also have been influenced at one time by people being incapable of logically parsing a phrase that used to be in the Laws of the Game.

The laws used to say that a direct free kick should be awarded if a player:


By using a complete logical fallacy, that was interpreted by some to mean that a tackle where the player touched the ball before making contact with the player, was therefore not a foul.

This phrase (using a slightly different form of wording) was introduced in 1995 and removed from the Laws in 2008.
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I personally think a great deal of that misconception (by the players) about "but I got the ball ref" is perpetuated by referees responding to appeals for a free kick with things like "No, he got the ball!" or even making some sort of spherical motion with their hands to justify/explain why. For as long as referees are doing/saying daft things like that then the myth will always prevail. :wtf:
 
I can 100% agree that certain referees just blag there way through games and this causes them little grief but more for the next referee in charge.
 
Kes said:
I personally think a great deal of that misconception (by the players) about "but I got the ball ref" is perpetuated by referees responding to appeals for a free kick with things like "No, he got the ball!" or even making some sort of spherical motion with their hands to justify/explain why. For as long as referees are doing/saying daft things like that then the myth will always prevail. :wtf:
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I was guilty of saying "got the ball" in the past.

Read on here someone just said say "fair tackle, good tackle", it works, slightest little change but has an impact.
 
RobOda said:
Right, but there are still referees who botch it up even on these things.

Like, I went to watch a game the other day as mine was called off, and when a red card incident occurred, the referee only asked that the player be subbed out, rather than send him off. I ran the line the other day where I was the only AR who followed the sub procedure and the CR wasn't bothered by it.

It sounds silly, but every month our county discipline officer regales us with tales of how referees are 'forgetting' to send players off, or various other incidents that have caused drama or confusion among clubs, so it is more common than we want/think and it just feeds into the misinformation that coaches pick up, especially if it is happening on an unpopular league where the better referees steer clear.
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That's so true. Even at the top laws are ignored as we know - rings taped up, GK in identical kit to the referee - doesn't make it any easier for the rest of us.
 
Part of the challenge is that for referees that are not on a promotion path or on something like County CORE, there is little to no development for the “unambitious” referee. There are many refs out there that last picked up a copy of the LOTG many years ago and are happy to bumble around in the middle of games for a bit of pocket money for as little stress and aggro as possible. That means that they aren’t going to enforce the LOTG in any way as closely as someone who is on that promotion path. The county FA’s don’t have the resources to police these refs, nor is there a glut of referees in waiting to taken over from them even if they did deem them to be not fit for purpose.

This season was the first season that there was a mandatory meeting to discuss sin bins, with the statement that refs would not get appointed until they had attended the training. Even then it's really a tick box exercise to say everyone is trained.
 
Kes said:
I personally think a great deal of that misconception (by the players) about "but I got the ball ref" is perpetuated by referees responding to appeals for a free kick with things like "No, he got the ball!" or even making some sort of spherical motion with their hands to justify/explain why. For as long as referees are doing/saying daft things like that then the myth will always prevail. :wtf:
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I sometimes use that phrase but it always procedes "cleanly" - then I haven't back myself into a corner when they take ball and man illegally.
 
JH said:
I sometimes use that phrase but it always procedes "cleanly" - then I haven't back myself into a corner when they take ball and man illegally.
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Not a phrase I'd use. It still implies that if you get the ball it can't be a foul.

I might be tempted to use the word "legally" rather than "cleanly" but for me, it's less confusing and simpler to just say something like "No, fair tackle" or "Nothing in that for me." :)
 
Kes said:
Not a phrase I'd use. It still implies that if you get the ball it can't be a foul.

I might be tempted to use the word "legally" rather than "cleanly" but for me, it's less confusing and simpler to just say something like "No, fair tackle" or "Nothing in that for me." :)
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Sometimes the ball sells it though, if two players go for the ball and you see the defending player get the touch before some natural contact - letting everyone know you saw that touch is important - otherwise it may well be a foul.
 
JH said:
Sometimes the ball sells it though, if two players go for the ball and you see the defending player get the touch before some natural contact - letting everyone know you saw that touch is important - otherwise it may well be a foul.
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Yeah I get that. But that's from a referee's perspective. My point was, that players hearing a referee mention "getting the ball" is part of the problem.
 
afronaut81 said:
The biggest misconception I get is "I got the ball ref how can that be a foul" for a careless/reckless challenge. Don't really know where that one came into common acceptance.
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I think most players do know. It's just the best way of trying to get out of a card
 
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