The Ref Stop

Club ARs ... the official line

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Personally find it a big shame that referees are offered minimal help at a weekend... And that county fa's promote this lack of support.

Surely it would be better to educate club lino's on the offside law, this allowing them to support referees more fully...

Ho hum
 
And it is completely out with the LOTG......the referee decides what responsibilities he gives to the AR.
 
I am in a position where I have my home league which encourages use of CARs for offside and a higher level league which is strictly ball in and out only.

A couple of things come to mind.

- teams in leagues where CARs are expected to "help" with offside play different defensively to teams used to the referee doing everything. They tend to rely on a sweeping player rather than a flat offside trap (from my experience).

- i have had very few problems with offside with teams used to the referee doing it all without CAR assistance

- if you instruct CARs not to signal for offside in leagues where they usually do, it causes a lot of problems.

- with teams used to CARs helping with offside, there are CARs who are cheats which causes problems. There are CARs who are honest who are still branded as cheats by oponents, this causes problems. I have a lot of respect for the honest CARS out there. Second worst job in football and they do it for free. (The worst job is an honest club referee called into service when there is no neutral referee)

- Lone refs doing offside without CARs help is not without its problems in terms of watching play and the offside line at the same time. One or the other is neglected at times - might be a split second - and then of course you miss that vital view of what happened. This does get better with experience.
 
If it works and is the accepted norm up in West Riding then so be it ...

I agree with @CallumRushton13 above - educate people on how to be an effective CAR - give them a chance - learn by doing and being part of the game

I ref'd a friendly yesterday between 2 school teams - upon arrival, one of the teachers requested that I call the off-sides ... I suggested back to him, given the nature of the game, that maybe the subs (running the line) be given the chance to add value to the game with flag in hand and call off-sides as they see them
 
I've always found the differences in opinion on the role of club ar's to be fascinating.

Here in Scotland Club AR's(when used) are only allowed to signal that the ball is out of play, they aren't even allowed to signal direction. So for someone used to this situation it always seems a bit strange that in some parts club officials give offsides and also in some cases free kicks etc.

As an outsider looking in, it worries me that someone with a vested interest(and quite probably no formal training in LOTG) is allowed to make crucial decisions on matters of offside. It may just be a cultural type thing, that these club AR's just get on with it, but thinking of some of the people I know up here who turn out as club AR's there is no way I would be letting them make any decision whatsoever.

@Padfoot - as far as I am aware club AR's are out with the LOTG!
 
Why haven't West Riding referenced their own rules on this subject? This directive should be going out to the referees and leagues, it's not up to the clubs to police it.
 
Two assistant referees may be appointed whose duties, subject to the decision of the referee, are to indicate:
• when the whole of the ball leaves the field of play
• which team is entitled to a corner kick, goal kick or throw-in
• when a player may be penalised for being in an offside position
• when a substitution is requested
• when misconduct or any other incident occurs out of the view of the referee
• when offences have been committed whenever the assistant referees have a better view than the referee (this includes, in certain circumstances, offences committed in the penalty area)
• whether, at penalty kicks, the goalkeeper moves off the goal line before the ball is kicked and if the ball crosses the line
Click to expand...

Doesn't specify how or who appoints them, just that they may be appointed. If it's in league rules that clubs have to supply an AR then that is an 'appointment', and as such it is for the referee to decide what duties to give to them.
 
@Padfoot I don't diasagree with you, but the Laws of the Game presupposes Neutral AR's.

I'm sure in the older version of the LOTG prior to the 1997 rewrite there was a section about non neutral linesman(as they were in those days) somewhere

I just find it strange that such important decisions could be accepted from people with vested interests!
 
Scotty Ref said:
@Padfoot

I just find it strange that such important decisions could be accepted from people with vested interests!
Click to expand...

It is strange, something I was unused to when I played, but there are CARs out there though who take pride in their honesty as much as their team affiliation.

Very amusing watching a team trying abuse their own CAR for honestly making a call and being told to grow up (pronounced more like fu... You get the idea) and get on with it :D
 
Scotty Ref said:
@Padfoot I don't diasagree with you, but the Laws of the Game presupposes Neutral AR's.

I'm sure in the older version of the LOTG prior to the 1997 rewrite there was a section about non neutral linesman(as they were in those days) somewhere

I just find it strange that such important decisions could be accepted from people with vested interests!
Click to expand...
I think you are presupposing NARs not the magic booklet.......

I think the LOTG recognises that assistants may be appointed, and gives the referee the responsibility for deciding what their duties are precisely because it understands that not all assistants will be neutral.

Now...the question is can a CFA make a ruling that is directly at odds with the LOTG?
 
Padfoot said:
I think you are presupposing NARs not the magic booklet.......

I think the LOTG recognises that assistants may be appointed, and gives the referee the responsibility for deciding what their duties are precisely because it understands that not all assistants will be neutral.

Now...the question is can a CFA make a ruling that is directly at odds with the LOTG?
Click to expand...
I believe that the instruction regarding CARs comes from the Practical Examination Paper produced by The FA which requires that CARs are instructed only to signal when the ball is out of play, the direction of restarts if known and that a substitution is required. It does not mention adjudging offside offences. Working on the basis that such a fundamental part of the role is not covered, then it has been interpreted as excluded from the role of the CAR
 
Brian Hamilton said:
I believe that the instruction regarding CARs comes from the Practical Examination Paper produced by The FA which requires that CARs are instructed only to signal when the ball is out of play, the direction of restarts if known and that a substitution is required. It does not mention adjudging offside offences. Working on the basis that such a fundamental part of the role is not covered, then it has been interpreted as excluded from the role of the CAR
Click to expand...

However, it is plainly at odds with the LOTG.
 
Padfoot said:
Now...the question is can a CFA make a ruling that is directly at odds with the LOTG?
Click to expand...

Well technically they can (or in this case have) however if that is binding or not is another argument.

National FA's can issue guidelines on the Laws but they shouldn't contradict/change the law. In many cases (eg USSF in the States) they have issued a huge set of guidelines many of which hugely conflict with the Laws.
 
OK, so I do mainly youth and vets, and for youth the CAR is typically a parent or coach (and more often than not, a coach, as trying to get parents to help for some clubs is nigh on impossible). For vets, a sub, but obviously of the more mature variety. 99% of the time no issues, other than where they don't fully understand the law - but on those occasions, as per the briefing I give them, acknowledge the flag and play on. In fact, most of the complaints are from their own team when they don't flag for offside. I will also blow for an offside I've spotted even if the flag hasn't gone up. The most complaints I hear about CAR's are normally directed at myself when I'm doing that role for my club, where coaches/parents clearly don't understand the law, e.g. "How can he be offside, he's in his own half" has been screamed at me at a number of games, even when I'm doing the hand-signal for, and shouting to the ref after he's blown, "coming back from an offside position". Where I have overruled a CAR, at the end of the half I will then explain why I overrode their decision, and only once have we agreed (politely) to disagree. Sad referee that I am, I even produced a guide called "Running The Line", which I hand out if a CAR has very little experience. So on the whole, they are well intentioned honest individuals wanting to help their club/team out; they may not be brilliant - today - but those that regularly do the role definitely improve, and I feel get a sense of reward from becoming involved (ie those that volunteer, rather than being volunteered). Long live CARs and them giving offsides.
 
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