A&H

City of Liverpool vs Chasetown

Correct outcome

  • No Pen

    Votes: 6 17.1%

  • No Pen & Caution Attacker

    Votes: 4 11.4%

  • Pen & Yellow

    Votes: 8 22.9%

  • Pen & Red

    Votes: 11 31.4%

  • Something else

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Free Kick & Red

    Votes: 6 17.1%
  • Total voters
    35
The Referee Store
Just added another option to the poll as I'm not convinced its in the box. Nigh on impossible for the on-field referee to have seen this though

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Runner-Ref said:
Just added another option to the poll as I'm not convinced its in the box. Nigh on impossible for the on-field referee to have seen this though

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That is exactly the situation where you would expect the info from the active AR.

I don't think it's enough for a foul, there's not enough impact, but once given DFK + RC should be the outcome.

If it was a penalty, I think this falls somewhere on the borderline that the new "challenge" for the ball law change that came in this year. I think the still is damning and makes it a red but totally different to give it in real time.
 
JamesL said:
That is exactly the situation where you would expect the info from the active AR.

I don't think it's enough for a foul, there's not enough impact, but once given DFK + RC should be the outcome.

If it was a penalty, I think this falls somewhere on the borderline that the new "challenge" for the ball law change that came in this year. I think the still is damning and makes it a red but totally different to give it in real time.
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agree on the AR—he’s the only view available that would be able to tell if the hold continued into the PA or not. Looks very close to me from the angle we have.

i don’t agree that it isn’t a foul—you can see the pull shift his torso back Which is definitely enough to take someone off balance when running at speed. I do agree that it is easy DOGSO once there is a foul. The other defender behind the attacker can’t change that.

It can’t be downgraded for being a challenge as it is holding/pulling.
 
I think it starts outside the area but continues into it, so if you are giving it then it has to be a penalty and red card. It would be very much on the soft side though.
 
RustyRef said:
I think it starts outside the area but continues into it, so if you are giving it then it has to be a penalty and red card. It would be very much on the soft side though.
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I think you're being a tad generous to say the pulling continues into the area. The defender has already let go by this point

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I think for the AR, the pre-match from the referee comes into it. I've certainly been out with referees at contrib level who didn't want any input from AR's on penalties.

My pre-match on scenarios like this was always 'if I'm unsure on in/out, I'll blow to say I've seen an offence but delay my signal. If you're happy it's inside, continue movement to corner flag, if outside, step towards halfway line'
 
socal lurker said:
i don’t agree that it isn’t a foul—you can see the pull shift his torso back Which is definitely enough to take someone off balance when running at speed. I do agree that it is easy DOGSO once there is a foul. The other defender behind the attacker can’t change that.
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I see what you are saying but I think you are overstating the contact. But that's football, game of opinions.

As someone who is a very fast runner (30+kmh on my smart watch) I can say with some certainty that the velocity that the player is moving forwards with would far out weigh the level of contact here.

This is classic, feel a touch and throw yourself down clobber for me.
 
santa sangria said:
Telling. Video review is a cruel mistress.
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Yes, it is.

At step 2 all our MCS are checked on video. Can be an anxious wait for the footage, and observer opinion.

I had an in/out call recently and I knew in my heart I was 100% certain it was in, there was still that niggling feeling of what if I haven't!
 
Runner-Ref said:
I think you're being a tad generous to say the pulling continues into the area. The defender has already let go by this point
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Think that depends where his left shoulder is, there's an argument to say it is on the line which would obviously be in the area. Only the AR would be able to judge that though, and he probably can't see the slight pull through the player's body.

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RustyRef said:
Think that depends where his left shoulder is, there's an argument to say it is on the line which would obviously be in the area. Only the AR would be able to judge that though, and he probably can't see the slight pull through the player's body.

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Bloody hell Rusty, I'd have loved you observing me. You're clearly a referees observer 😄

At this level, I certainly think there's enough in it to support the referee either way. But if we slow it down, VAR style, it's definitely outside for me.
 
So interestingly Law 12 doesn't define 'pulling' as a DFK offence so you have to look at it as a holding offence and apply the criteria of whether it impeded the opponent's movement, which I think it just about does. (That's clearly the intention of reaching over anyway!)
 
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Ref must've in a decent sprint after giving it, from the build-up looks like he would've been just leaving the centre circle.
 
Agree with everyone that this is tricky in terms of level of contact and location. Different referees will interpret the events differently and it is difficult to say they are wrong in doing so. At the end of the day, the defender puts himself in a frame here. Although the contact wasn’t significant, it also wasn’t necessary, with the sole intention being to put the attacker off his shot without challenging for the ball. The attacker almost wins an academy award for diving except for the fact that it is at least in response to contact being made. In any given moment I can swing from no foul / sanction to one or more of the options above. Who would be a referee…
 
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