onthebrink
Well-Known Member
That quite rarely happened from memory - generally they only intervened if the referee/officials didn't see it. There haven't been many off-the-ball VAR decisions that I can think of this season.
Chelsea v Utd
- Thread starter Ryanj91
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That quite rarely happened from memory - generally they only intervened if the referee/officials didn't see it. There haven't been many off-the-ball VAR decisions that I can think of this season.
onthebrink
Well-Known Member
Probably! Aguero being suspended once vaguely springs to mind?
I do think there's an argument that with the introduction of VAR red cards should be able to be given retrospectively where relevant. Maguire will now avoid suspension even though most think it was a clear red. The re-refereeing the game argument doesn't really stand up now that VAR is doing precisely that. Clubs can still appeal red cards (e.g. Son at Everton) after all.
I was initially against the idea, but I now firmly believe that any potential VC or SFP needs to be looked at on the monitor by the referee. You won't get complete consistency between different referees on all decisions, so we need the next best thing which is each referee to always do things consistently themselves and that can only happen if they see the review.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
Never gonna happen. Nor should it. That suggests re-refereeing every VC/SFP rather than catching clear errors--and where are you going to draw the line on what is "potential" SFP or VC? Does every reckless tackle become an OFR for "potential SFP"?
Didn't really phrase it right, didn't mean every potential one. Rather, if VAR is at all undecided, and I'm sure that must have been the case last night, he gets the referee over for a look. A large percentage of referees think this should have been VC, and that to me suggests that a clear and obvious error was made. Even pundits like Keane and Carragher, who normally aren't keen to see players get sent off, said this was a clear red.
We have real injustices here. Son was sent off on VAR advice for a vastly lesser offence, so if VAR is going to lead to total inconsistencies like this it needs a rethink. Even more so as the referee on both occasions was Taylor, you have to now ask who is refereeing the game. I am also very sure that the relatively calm response of the Chelsea bench helped make the decision, and it isn't too far a stretch to say that if Maguire's actions had led to a brawl the outcome might well have been very different
onthebrink
Well-Known Member
I wonder if Anthony Taylor has been the referee who's had to change subjective decisions the most with VAR? (I won't count offsides because that's not related to the referee.) I can think of at least 6 decisions he's changed through VAR. I appreciate he's probably had more games than many but a bit of a concern.
Over a number of games, I fail to see why referees looking at pitch side monitors, will yield better consistency that their peers reviewing the same footage from the comfort of their remote shipping container. On an incident-by-incident basis, it's still an SG1 looking at an incident. Over a period of time, it's still a group of SG1's looking at a group of incidents, regardless of which ref makes the call
Nothing solved, except that there may be small gains made from the on-field ref being able to 'smell the grass' and 'feel the heat', whilst showing them whose boss. Not worth the bother of the additional delay. We'll find out sooner or later if I'm marginally off the mark, one way or tother (because the PGMOL will have to wilt under pundit shortsightedness)
Nothing solved, except that there may be small gains made from the on-field ref being able to 'smell the grass' and 'feel the heat', whilst showing them whose boss. Not worth the bother of the additional delay. We'll find out sooner or later if I'm marginally off the mark, one way or tother (because the PGMOL will have to wilt under pundit shortsightedness)
On a micro-basis, why would AT make a better decision than CK last night? AT would be more fatigued and definitely more distracted
Somewhat unusually, CK is arguably a better referee than AT, albeit the currency of CK's stock is measured in potential
I used to dislike the OFR because of the accompanying pantomime, but the whole thing is a circus now, so that argument has been diluted somewhat
I'm staggered at how long the VAR takes to reach a decision, but the OFR can only make it worse
I get the attempts to strike thing, but players can go forcefully face to face and come out with a caution. I happen to think the better ref got this one right
Somewhat unusually, CK is arguably a better referee than AT, albeit the currency of CK's stock is measured in potential
I used to dislike the OFR because of the accompanying pantomime, but the whole thing is a circus now, so that argument has been diluted somewhat
I'm staggered at how long the VAR takes to reach a decision, but the OFR can only make it worse
I get the attempts to strike thing, but players can go forcefully face to face and come out with a caution. I happen to think the better ref got this one right
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
I completely disagree with the idea of having VAR send down uncertain plays. Going down that road with VC and SFP immediately takes you to doing the same thing for PKs and fouls in the build up, and gets us far from the concept of clear and obvious error to re-refereeing and more and more delays. We can't fix an occiasonal poor decision by a VAR by making Rs run to the monitor on a regular basis--that's exactly the slippery slope people were concerned about in having VAR at all. Of course there are going to be inconsistencies--only fools believed VAR would remove them all. And having the R look at the screen isn't going to remove the inconsistencies, it is just going to mean they come solely from the R.
The other thing to point out is that this incident actually occurred in the Chelsea technical area. So by the time AT has charged over and diffused the incident, he's probably ~10 yards from the VAR monitor in this case!
I missed the 2nd offside, it was close but just offside. I had to get my Big Brother to check! 
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
Well that's a bit different from the last one I saw... and my overarching memory of VAR live will be Burn getting robbed of a blinding overhead kick goal by a toenail... and it crushing the game. But you know... YMMV
PP62
Well-Known Member
I totally agree with this. It's what I have been saying all day. You're usually guaranteed a mass confrontation with something like this right in front of a dug out. I couldn't believe how quickly the Chelsea lot all just sat back down.
Maybe they saw it like me and just didn't want to make a kerfuffle!!!
Justylove
RefChat Addict
It's getting some decisions correct, but not all. The issue is that where you don't have VAR,
If you've ever been to a referee meeting where you get to review video clips, you'll see that some things end up with split decisions as to what the right sanction is. The only way to ensure a consistency in decision making within a single game is to have 1 person responsible for making the decision. The moment you give some of the decision making to another referee, you're adding additional chances for inconsistency.
That was the one where Halsey claimed he'd been told by Mike Riley to say he hadn't seen it.
I might have had Aguero in mind for the weekend when Sky had his alleged elbow on WHU's Reid on a continuous loop in order to get him charged (and City did argue that Mr Marriner was close enough to have seen it) but I was thinking further back to Adebayor's alleged stamp on Van Persie (see below) where the issue was that Clattenburg was looking right at it and said he hadn't seen it. (And it was the same match when Adebayor scored and ran to celebrate in front of the Arsenal fans and was cautioned; City say Clattenburg said at the time it was for USB but then his report said it was for timewasting - meaning he could be charged with improper conduct. Timewasting? Fastest ever a player has got back in his own half after scoring!)
PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
Even as an opponent of VAR, if we're stuck with it, I'm coming round to that view as well. At least its ONE person's subjective decision to debate, rather than two and you would hope the annoying/unavoidable delay wouldn't be any longer than it is now while the VAR at Stockley Park looks at an incident.