The Ref Stop

Chelsea V United

The Ref Stop
I disagree with VAR on Young handball, clear movement towards the ball despite the proximity!
 
JH said:
I disagree with VAR on Young handball, clear movement towards the ball despite the proximity!
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Proximity is king. The arm was in a natural position despite the slight movement. That's the sort of HB players appeal for routinely (and never get from me)
 
santa sangria said:
81st min Courtois handling offence?

Martial's shot going for a corner, Courtois palms it to stop it going out, then plays it with the feet, then picks it up. IDFK no?
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Nah. Not for me. In fact, iirc, this has been specifically written in as allowed in this years edition. Although not the very definition of save I think we can class this as a save as he saved a corner so happy for him to then pick up.
 
I did remember correctly...

• If the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper this does not prevent the goalkeeper handling
the ball a second time even if the first attempt to catch/holds the ball was deliberate
 
Big Cat said:
Proximity is king. The arm was in a natural position despite the slight movement. That's the sort of HB players appeal for routinely (and never get from me)
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Usually the hand is already by the side and if it doesn't move, it's not handball. But it comes from behind him to his side, and ultimately the ball. Seen them given.
 
The handball rule needs revision! I heard that the term "deliberate" will be taken out. Good!
I would suggest something like "can the player anticipate the ball" - i think Young can.
 
halter42 said:
The handball rule needs revision! I heard that the term "deliberate" will be taken out. Good!
I would suggest something like "can the player anticipate the ball" - i think Young can.
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So then we'll be asking players to actively move their hands and arms away from an incoming ball? Seems like nonsense to me with everything else going on and players focusing on a million other things that we'll be judging handballs on whether he could anticipate the ball being flicked up at his arm in 0.025 of a second and having to anticipate it and get the arm out of the way.
 
The Phil Jones yellow is another example of why no one at the PGMOL gives a **** what fans think of referees.
 
NorthLondonRef said:
So then we'll be asking players to actively move their hands and arms away from an incoming ball? Seems like nonsense to me with everything else going on and players focusing on a million other things that we'll be judging handballs on whether he could anticipate the ball being flicked up at his arm in 0.025 of a second and having to anticipate it and get the arm out of the way.
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It certainly needs some sort of revision/clarification, the law is implemented so inconsistently. Even at the top level they ignore the fact is has to be deliberate if it is inconsequential, in the middle of the pitch etc.
 
JH said:
It certainly needs some sort of revision/clarification, the law is implemented so inconsistently. Even at the top level they ignore the fact is has to be deliberate if it is inconsequential, in the middle of the pitch etc.
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I mean, what players ACTUALLY play a ball deliberately with their hands. Yes, maybe Luis' Suarez save at the world cup or Chamberlains handball against Chelsea (ball was going wide^^) but other than that - noone wants to deliberately give away a penalty. The problem is, the word is used wrongly in the rules, same goes for "gaining an advantage" (for offside). If you use words like that in the rules, there are going to be misconceptions i.m.o.
 
NorthLondonRef said:
So then we'll be asking players to actively move their hands and arms away from an incoming ball? Seems like nonsense to me with everything else going on and players focusing on a million other things that we'll be judging handballs on whether he could anticipate the ball being flicked up at his arm in 0.025 of a second and having to anticipate it and get the arm out of the way.
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I agree that this would mean a even harder job for defenders, and I'm not sure if it would work (especially on non-pro level). But it would, for me at least, be much easier to call a foul or not. And that is key for me - more consistency on the calls.
 
halter42 said:
I mean, what players ACTUALLY play a ball deliberately with their hands. Yes, maybe Luis' Suarez save at the world cup or Chamberlains handball against Chelsea (ball was going wide^^) but other than that - noone wants to deliberately give away a penalty. The problem is, the word is used wrongly in the rules, same goes for "gaining an advantage" (for offside). If you use words like that in the rules, there are going to be misconceptions i.m.o.
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I made this point on a recent VAR handball or supposed American FIFA classroom of handball, the reality of a defender deliberatly conceeding a pk and possible sanction on purpose is very slim, barring the most obvious of handling offences.
Maybe a law change from deliberate, to, actually, would help, as I have long stated only one person knows if the act was deliberate yet as a referee we might be better placed to credibly define something as, actually
 
Great game from Oliver. Bang on for the penalty and yellow. It is not Olivers fault that it was a poor attempt to win the ball but it was an attempt.
 
JamesL said:
I did remember correctly...

• If the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper this does not prevent the goalkeeper handling
the ball a second time even if the first attempt to catch/holds the ball was deliberate
Click to expand...
But it wasn't a "save". The ball wasn't going in or close to the goal. And it didn't rebound. He jumped up to stop the ball going for a corner by playing the ball with his hand. Then he picked it up from the floor. IDFK, surely?
 
santa sangria said:
But it wasn't a "save". The ball wasn't going in or close to the goal. And it didn't rebound. He jumped up to stop the ball going for a corner by playing the ball with his hand. Then he picked it up from the floor. IDFK, surely?
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"Even if the first attempt to catch / hold the ball was deliberate."
No offence. Keep playing.
 
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