Champions league /VAR

[es1]

A few VAR observations from this game week...

1. Potential penalty for handball in the leverkusen v athletico game not given is immediately followed by a clear cut chance which is missed. VAR check the pen and don't give it but...does or can advantage ever be taken into account with penalty reviews? Had a penalty been given on review athletico would have absolutely had '2 bites of the cherry' which seems, potentially, a little unfair.

With semi-automated offside why are we still allowing play to continue for clear chances? If we know that player A is offside and they've committed an offside offence or there are no other attackers in the vicinity surely we can get the flag up ASAP?

Anyway, just some incidents that caught my attention!

 

[cwyeary]

A few VAR observations from this game week...

1. Potential penalty for handball in the leverkusen v athletico game not given is immediately followed by a clear cut chance which is missed. VAR check the pen and don't give it but...does or can advantage ever be taken into account with penalty reviews? Had a penalty been given on review athletico would have absolutely had '2 bites of the cherry' which seems, potentially, a little unfair.

With semi-automated offside why are we still allowing play to continue for clear chances? If we know that player A is offside and they've committed an offside offence or there are no other attackers in the vicinity surely we can get the flag up ASAP?

Anyway, just some incidents that caught my attention!

SAOS is still only used in situations where the VAR can get involved such as goals penalty kicks red card. It just replaces the process where the VAR has to draw the lines. That's why the light flag is still needed.

 

[es1]

SAOS is still only used in situations where the VAR can get involved such as goals penalty kicks red card. It just replaces the process where the VAR has to draw the lines. That's why the light flag is still needed.

Does it really!? I find that utterly bizarre. Why have the system and not fully utilise it?! There's everything to lose from not using it for the full 90, you could easily/will end up with a non-reviewable offside leading to a goal.

 

[socal lurker]

Does it really!? I find that utterly bizarre. Why have the system and not fully utilise it?! There's everything to lose from not using it for the full 90, you could easily/will end up with a non-reviewable offside leading to a goal.

How? If it’s used on goals?

 

[es1]

How? If it’s used on goals?

By not giving an offside where one was required, there will be goals scored that won't be reviewable. Maybe the team loses then regains possession.

This is different to using VAR for fouls and misconduct, offside is much easier to determine

 

[cwyeary]

Someday ARs might be made obsolete with the tech but we're not there yet.

 

[JamesL]

Does it really!? I find that utterly bizarre. Why have the system and not fully utilise it?! There's everything to lose from not using it for the full 90, you could easily/will end up with a non-reviewable offside leading to a goal.

Semi automated is just that.
It still requires a human to select the frame the ball is played and a human to review whether one of the 3 offside offences are committed. So the delayed flag process has to remain for that reason

 

[es1]

Semi automated is just that.
It still requires a human to select the frame the ball is played and a human to review whether one of the 3 offside offences are committed. So the delayed flag process has to remain for that reason

I thought that wasn't right? I thought the tech could tell when the ball was kicked automatically?

 

[es1]

Someday ARs might be made obsolete with the tech but we're not there yet.

I think (if my understanding is correct) we're pretty much there aren't we? The tech tells who's in an offside position every time the ball is kicked automatically doesn't it? 'All' that is needed is manual input to determine if an offside offence has taken place.

 

[cwyeary]

I think (if my understanding is correct) we're pretty much there aren't we? The tech tells who's in an offside position every time the ball is kicked automatically doesn't it? 'All' that is needed is manual input to determine if an offside offence has taken place.

But the offside position isn't communicated to the on field crew. It's only there to help the VAR assess offside quicker in situations where the laws allow them to intervene (goals/pk/red cards).

 

[es1]

But the offside position isn't communicated to the on field crew. It's only there to help the VAR assess offside quicker in situations where the laws allow them to intervene (goals/pk/red cards).

Well that's my point. Why the hell not? There's literally nothing to lose by doing it. And everything to lose by not doing it.

 

[cwyeary]

If you have a free kick where two people were in offside position and the rest were not, how would the system know if an offside offense occurred in real time?

 

[es1]

If you have a free kick where two people were in offside position and the rest were not, how would the system know if an offside offense occurred in real time?

You have VAR and the refs/ARs speak to each other. I'm not suggesting it's fully automated, there'd still have to be some level of human decision making

 

[cwyeary]

Well it's moot until the laws of the game are changed. Right now the VAR can only get involved with four types of situations and the on field refs must make a decision first.

 

[es1]

Fair enough. I just can't fathom why we've developed this really very impressive technology and don't want to use it to anywhere near it's potential.

Football desperately needs to recognise that it's not special and to properly embrace technology and how to use it for the good of the game.

 

[cwyeary]

It's been used for a handful of FIFA Club World Cup games and two rounds of CL games.

Maybe will get to your scenario but it seems a little premature to be asking ARs and VARs to completely change everything they do for the CL and World Cup will not doing it in their leagues.

 

[es1]

I'll disagree there. I think it's the perfect time...but hey ho.

Just found it strange watching city v dortmund and twice very clear offsides were left to run on until the flag eventually went up.

Anyway...onto the other part of my initial question

 

[socal lurker]

Just found it strange watching city v dortmund and twice very clear offsides were left to run on until the flag eventually went up.

ARs are not supposed to delay on clear OS, only on close calls. But being human, they recognize that an error in being too late vanishes, but an error in being too early can be a real problem.

 

[GraemeS]

Yeah, I think this terminology is the problem. Were they really "very clear offsides"? If so, the problem is with the AR's decision making, those should have just been flagged in the same way we would at grassroots.

Or is there a little hyperbole here and they were actually pretty tight? In which case, the onus is on the viewer to accept that it's a difficult job and the game benefits from caution rather than misplaced confidence in those situations. As referees, we should be better positioned to understand how difficult that call is than the average lay-viewer.

You get slightly annoyed at a bit of play that didn't have to happen - you would get VERY annoyed at a goal being disallowed because a wrong flag went up early. See Villa v City recently. Goals are the whole point of the game and I'd rather have 10 "unnecessary plays" every match than even one incident like that each season.

 

[es1]

Yeah, I think this terminology is the problem. Were they really "very clear offsides"? If so, the problem is with the AR's decision making, those should have just been flagged in the same way we would at grassroots.

Or is there a little hyperbole here and they were actually pretty tight? In which case, the onus is on the viewer to accept that it's a difficult job and the game benefits from caution rather than misplaced confidence in those situations. As referees, we should be better positioned to understand how difficult that call is than the average lay-viewer.

You get slightly annoyed at a bit of play that didn't have to happen - you would get VERY annoyed at a goal being disallowed because a wrong flag went up early. See Villa v City recently. Goals are the whole point of the game and I'd rather have 10 "unnecessary plays" every match than even one incident like that each season.

these were offsides i called from 100 yards away and one that led to ederson diving headfirst towards an onrushing attacker. seems ludicrous to let play go on in circumstances like that

the villa one is different. AR clearly made an initial judgement mistake. after that 3 city players including the keeper who could have made attempts to stop the shot all pulled out once the whistle was blown so a goal definitely not guaranteed