A&H

Cautions

B

BrumRef

Regular Contributor
Level 7 Referee
Today, u13s match, a player felt he had been fouled and asked why I hadn’t given it. I explained that both had hands on each other and then he suddenly took an aggressive manner and said”shut up you’re a rubbish ref find a new job” for which I cautioned him. At the end of the game the manager was unhappy I hadn’t warned that one individual player before cautioning him however I had already warned a number of players (None said anything like this just questioned me) and felt that what this u13 said was unacceptable.
Was I right to caution him for this at u13 level or do I have to speak to each individual player before cautioning them.
 
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Sounds like you were right there but people will deal things in their own way. Might be worth remembering not to get too drawn into giving lengthy explanations to players of what you've given - a quick 'both all over each other' and run off will do the job and avoid situations like this. Having said that, his response can definitely be classed as dissent, so well done for acting it. Some I suspect will say they will have warned him publicly but if a card did the job, well done!
 
Justylove said:
If you cautioned for dissent you should have sin binned him....
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There was 30 seconds until the final whistle and I decided at the time with the managers and linesman already shouting at me, that by leaving him on, this would stop the incident from further escalating
 
BrumRef said:
There was 30 seconds until the final whistle and I decided at the time with the managers and linesman already shouting at me, that by leaving him on, this would stop the incident from further escalating
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Sorry, going to have to call you out on this one. Regardless of the time of the incident, if you go for the pocket for dissent, you have to issue the correct sanction, you can’t just make it up.

Also remember, that if you put through a non sin bin caution, the county FA issues a fine. If you issue a Sin Bin, it counts against the clubs disciplinary record, but they DO NOT get a fine for the yellow.

In the situation you were in, either give him a really stiff telling off, or you get him to sit out the rest of the game.
 
Just stressing on the importance of @Justylove's post

There are two types of decisions you have to make as a referee (remember not taking action is also a decision)
  • ITOOTR, these ones, as the acronym suggests, are based on the opinion of the referee. You can generally make any decision you want and whether you are right or wrong is debatable. Like 'is a challenge is a foul'. Adjust your decision to suite the situation but try to be consistent within the game and also with other referees on these sorts of decisions.
  • Mandatory, these are decisions that are black and white. You are either right or wrong and there is no debate in it. Your situation of cautioning for dissent but not sin binning is one. Calling for an incorrectly taken throw in (foul throw) but giving the same team the retake is another. Not following these has long term negative consequences not only for your own match control (they will eventually bite you on the backside), it also makes other referees' job harder.
As mentioned above, there are sometimes workarounds if you don't want to back yourself into a corner by having to make a mandatory decision. For example whether something is dissent or not is ITOOTR, you can always decide it was not dissent and only warranted giving a bollocking. But once you decide it is dissent, then you have to sin-bin. whether a throw in is incorrect or not is (mostly) ITOOTR, but once you decide it is incorrect then you have to give it to the other side.
 
Whilst the stepped approach works well, if a player overstep the line on his first offence then he's going in the book.

Similarly if a player commits a clearly reckless challenge in the first minute he'll get a YC*. Just because it's a first offense doesn't give anyone a free pass.

*And yes I know this may constrain you for the rest of the match but equally so would not issuing a YC for a blatant YC
 
Comedyjock said:
If the manner it was said made you feel uncomfortable, YC for aggressive attitude and move on. No sin bin required.
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No, that's a cop out. Adopting an aggressive attitude is for between players, if a player makes a comment to a match official that merits a caution it can only be for dissent, not AAA.
 
Kes said:
There are some who might even feel that this crosses over into OFFINABUS - for which he'd be seeing red. ;)
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Not sure this could ever be classed as OFFINABUS.

Don’t see how this ever could be anything other than Dissent
 
RustyRef said:
No, that's a cop out. Adopting an aggressive attitude is for between players, if a player makes a comment to a match official that merits a caution it can only be for dissent, not AAA.
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Have never heard this before - how come?
 
The misunderstanding between Dissent (C2) and AA is very common on my travels. Might explain the FA's Sin Bin stats
 
Justylove said:
Not sure this could ever be classed as OFFINABUS.

Don’t see how this ever could be anything other than Dissent
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Dissent is public disagreement (by word or action) with the referees decision/actions.

Let's have another look at what this 12/13 year old kid has said shall we?

”Shut up you’re a rubbish ref find a new job” :wtf: :rolleyes:

If you don't think that any of the above can possibly be construed as Offensive, or Insulting mate, then we're probably not going to agree on much. ;) :)
 
Kes said:
Dissent is public disagreement (by word or action) with the referees decision/actions.

Let's have another look at what this 12/13 year old kid has said shall we?

”Shut up you’re a rubbish ref find a new job” :wtf::rolleyes:

If you don't think that any of the above can possibly be construed as Offensive, or Insulting mate, then we're probably not going to agree on much. ;):)
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maybe we’ll agree to disagree, but I’m selling a sit down for 8 minutes rather than a send off. If he had interspersed an expletive in there as well, then I’d probably be leaning towards a red.
 
Justylove said:
maybe we’ll agree to disagree, but I’m selling a sit down for 8 minutes rather than a send off. If he had interspersed an expletive in there as well, then I’d probably be leaning towards a red.
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there's a big difference between thinking a caution is better and not seeing how anyone could think it was OFFINABUS.

A manager actually complaining about a caution has a few screws loose--far more refs are going to go red on that (three inappropriate statements canned together) than are going to think no caution is warranted.
 
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Justylove said:
maybe we’ll agree to disagree, but I’m selling a sit down for 8 minutes rather than a send off. If he had interspersed an expletive in there as well, then I’d probably be leaning towards a red.
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Horses for courses I suppose Justy. ;)

Ask yourself this though ... if you'd said to a player "Shut up, you're a crap footballer - find another sport". Do you suppose he'd find it offensive or insulting?
If proven and you admitted it, do you think your County FA would be so lenient?
 
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