A&H

Can you ever be to strict

StuArt reed

StuArt reed

New Member
Level 6 Referee
Hi guys

Here's a question for you more experienced referees. I Got into a discussion today with a teams manager as I'm told as a referee I'm to strict!!. I've been refereeing since July, I always let the game flow and play as much advantage where possible and I try not to use whistle unless needed, but I don't take any mouth from players they get told once then it's a caution. My response was I'm a referee that enforces the laws of game I cannot and will not comment on how other referees handle a game. How can you ever be to strict??
 
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Stuart, are you overly obsessive of where the ball is placed on free kicks, or throw ins? Something which some club members may see this as pernickety - perhaps making them see you as being strict. Either that, or are all of the referees in your local area very experienced and so do not take much care in what they do. You then appearing on the block, enforcing the laws correctly is a bit of a strange thing for them!
 
No I've never been over obsessive on free kicks to speak, this game there was 6 foul throw in a row, 2 goal kicks that didn't leave area but he still seems to think I was in the wrong as "other refs " wouldn't say nothing
 
It seems as though it is almost a case of 'last weeks ref' again. The referees who have officiated at that club before you haven't exactly helped you. They haven't followed the LOTG correctly, and then once you show up and follow them, the clubs think you're wrong!
 
StuArt reed said:
No I've never been over obsessive on free kicks to speak, this game there was 6 foul throw in a row, 2 goal kicks that didn't leave area but he still seems to think I was in the wrong as "other refs " wouldn't say nothing
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I don't know whether you were at the RA Conference Stuart but there was a massive push on what was right in law and what football expects. IMO 6 foul throws is too many to give unless the players were hopping as they threw it.
You got into a discussion today so I'm guessing that it was a friendly and again IMO as referees we should be letting friendlies flow a lot more than normal games and also using them to develop as referees, I had one last Sunday, in any other game I could've sent a couple off but I tried to experiment with my people managing skills and so never had to issue a card. I was chuffed at the end of it.

My point is try not to be too strict which is easily possible, try and adapt to the game that you are refereeing and suit your tolerance level/refereeing style to the game's tempo.
 
Forget trying to play loads of advantage.

At most levels of parks football teams will benefit more from the FK than the advantage.

When you say you tell them once then it's a card.....what sort of thing are you telling them? And what are you booking them for?
 
Just be firm but fair and like Hull Ref said sometimes as refs we can turn a blind eye to the odd thing. Again 6 foul throws in a row does seem very excessive, the foul throw is a funny old thing because in law the throw in technique is very brief so you can actually sell a "none" foul throw very easily unless of course his feet are off the ground. I assist for a level 4 ref who has a policy of, i don't do foul throws!! Now i know that will make ALOT of refs on here jump up and down about that but think about it, and for the good of the game it allows the games to flow more. As Hull Ref also said the conference did have a "common sense" approach to making decisions and reminds me of my last game of the season between top and bottom of the league, 1 already promoted the other already relegated. Its 9-0, a shot comes in (to make it 10) with the keeper down and a player no older than 16 tips the ball over the bar, to be fair it was a great save! I blow, penalty, DOGSO? I didn't send the player off, why? Because it would of achieved absolutely nothing, other than a young lad getting a fine he couldn't afford, a ban he could do without and a result similar to a cricket score. I firmly told the player that under any other circumstances he was gone and was very lucky to see the match out. I know i was wrong in law but would do it again without hesitation.
 
Water and ducks back. While it would be nice to be liked universally and be regarded as a great ref by all, it's never gonna happen. Certain teams will moan. Next game they might love you. Such is the joy of bias amongst teams, supporters and others involved in football.

If you are happy that it is not something you are doing, don't worry about it. If it is a point which is raised often by teams, perhaps asking a senior colleague to come and watch what you are doing (or get assessed) could pin point an issue.

That said, the team in question will hopefully remember your tolerances next match and temper their behaviour accordingly!
 
As already noted. Unless you're nailed on for a goal there is no advantage anywhere. That's the assessor view. I've been accused of being too fussy but work on the theory that it's better to be fussy early on and back off later rather than start easy and then have to try to gain control when everything goes wrong.
 
Thanks for response guys , I think I'm going to ask a senior to come and asses me. With regards to the 6 foul throws every time there feet were off the floor, with the mouth from players i can tolerate the "ohh come on ref" but I won't tolerate being sweared at. Advantage I feel let's the game flow teams actually seem to like that
As previously said I'm a new referee, only done friendlys. I appreciate your feedback guys :)
 
I rarely give foul throws anymore unless it's an absolute howler. It's more important to be looking at the drop zone. The thrower is on his own on the touch line and unlikely to start a fight whereas there will be a number of players challenging for the ball who may get physical. That said if a team start shouting for foul throws I'll have a look.
Being sworn at is one of those things that you can either take or not. I think that at some point you'll need to accept that some is frustration and not meant with any malice but some needs dealing with. It is, however, personal. As a newly qualified ref I cautioned everyone who swore at me now rarely so. You just have to go with what you find acceptable.
As for getting a senior ref to watch you that's a great idea. Another thought is to find a couple of guys who qualified with you and see if you can go and watch each other and give and honest impression of how things went.
 
It is not an automatic dismissal under S6. Offensive, insulting and abusive is a subjective phrase. If someone calls me short and round I could send him off for insulting me but I don't find it offensive. Is "Oh for f... sake ref" grounds for dismissal. I don't believe so. That is frustration and like it or not part of our language.
 
Darren Amor said:
I rarely give foul throws anymore unless it's an absolute howler. It's more important to be looking at the drop zone. The thrower is on his own on the touch line and unlikely to start a fight whereas there will be a number of players challenging for the ball who may get physical. That said if a team start shouting for foul throws I'll have a look.
Being sworn at is one of those things that you can either take or not. I think that at some point you'll need to accept that some is frustration and not meant with any malice but some needs dealing with. It is, however, personal. As a newly qualified ref I cautioned everyone who swore at me now rarely so. You just have to go with what you find acceptable.
As for getting a senior ref to watch you that's a great idea. Another thought is to find a couple of guys who qualified with you and see if you can go and watch each other and give and honest impression of how things went.
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Excellent response Darren!!
 
Darren Amor said:
It is not an automatic dismissal under S6. Offensive, insulting and abusive is a subjective phrase. If someone calls me short and round I could send him off for insulting me but I don't find it offensive. Is "Oh for f... sake ref" grounds for dismissal. I don't believe so. That is frustration and like it or not part of our language.
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Agreed about frustration......but you said you were cautioning players for swearing "at" you...which implies a degree of personalisation.

It is not a requirement of the LOTG for the referee to feel offended, insulted or abused......it is the words or gesture that is judged not the end result. Therefore if a player says or does something that is has the potential to offend, insult or abuse then the offence is complete.

However, many referees hide behind the "i wasn't offended....etc" excuse as a mechanism to avoid applying the LOTG correctly and thereby staying mates with the players, and more importantly, those responsible for club marks!

/soapbox
 
This debate will go until the end of time, it is down to individuals tolerance and discretion. It is not always what is said but the context it is said in, I can call you a fu***n d**k in a laughing joking way and not offend at all, then again I can call you a flipping idiot in an aggressive manner and really upset you. The LOTG do not state anywhere that players can not swear, they talk about dissent and Offensive, Insulting and Abusive Language......Not swearing!!
 
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Yes, it is entirely possible to be too strict. Never having seen one of your matches, I obviously can't comment on how this applies to you.
 
Reiterating what @HullRef said about what is right in Law and what football expects.

If the players' don't 'expect' it or don't see it as a issue; why make it one? You will just be bringing hassle upon yourself.

Try to become aware of the type of match and adapting to it, and officiating the game to it's 'expectations'.

Find a balance between your refereeing style and the specific game you're officiating...
 
The offence is -
using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures.
There is nothing subjective about this. Its not whether you find it so, but is it objectively so, ie would the reasonable person bythe ordinary standards of society find it so.
The most offensive language is well established as ****, ****, ****ing etc. Less offensive is ****, bugger, ******* etc.
Abusive language is coarse or insulting: 'You fat ugly *******!'

The offence doesnt state anyone has to be actually offended, use of the language is sufficient, unlike s5 of the Public Order Act 1986 whichrequires a person in the presence and hearing likely to be caused alarm harassment or distress. This could affect spectators especially if they include children and the elderly, and so leave players committing a criminal offence, especially in public places, passers by.

ps swearing is using such language!
 
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