The Ref Stop

Bloody Players

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Padfoot said:
Refereeing is a very simple pursuit only made complicated by those who seek to avoid the unpleasant parts while still believing they are doing the job they have gone there to do.
Referee what is in front of you, in line with the LOTG, consistently and without favour.
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I agree with with your point, but there are situations where sticking blindly and rigidly to the Laws helps neither the referee, players or the game as a whole.

So, when you are observing or mentoring a referee do you mark them down, or advise them that they are wrong, if a player goes to retrieve the ball from the bushes without asking first and they don’t issue a caution?
 
The Ref Stop
If a team is playing with 7 players and a player leaves the field of play with a bloodied nose, how do you know whether to abandon the game if the player hasn't informed you or asked your permission to leave the field of play?
Or a defender with a blood injury leaves the FOP on the touchline in his own half and no one has informed the referee, play is quickly switched and the opposition attacks with an attacker in an 'offside position' but the referee considers the bloodied defender to be still on the FOP and allows play to continue. The attacker scores. What do you do?
There has to be procedure and protocols around these situations in order to provide some order instead of chaos. The permission should be asked of the referee not any other official because the referee is the sole arbiter of the game. There'll be games without assistants and games without fourth officials but always a game with a referee.
Without this permission, the players would soon realise they could leave the FOP with impunity, play offside or generally cause chaos without any sanction.
So, in a sense, I agree with the Laws (5 & 12) in relation to this topic and yes, that states that the player should be cautioned. It also puts me in the @Padfoot corner. I also believe the way in which these two laws interact should be looked at because it looks to me as though a concussion type injury could be an exceptional circumstance.
 
Right. So a player being short of breath runs off the field and grabs an asthma puffer out of his bag, and you're going to book him for it????
Give me a break. :wall::wall:
It's called common sense and understanding the spirit of the game. And that means you look at each situation on its merits. Not book the 12 year old on a full team running off the field while the ball is at the other end to grab his asthma puffer because at some point somewhere in the world somebody with 7 players might think to feign an injury to abandon the match or god knows what your point actually was.
Once I started typing that, the more I realised that none of our 'what if.... 7 players' scenarios weren't even relevant to the question.
Your first one...well obviously if you don't know it's not an issue, and if you do know you deal with it at the stoppage.

As for the second, again you're just trying to cloud the issue with barely relevant scenarios. And that scenario has nothing to do with deliberately leaving the field given the exact same thing can occur when a defender has naturally overrun the goal line.

Wait a minute, I have to back up.

Do we seriously....

...seriously.....
....have people on here saying that if a bleeding player takes himself off the field.....

....BECAUSE HE IS FREAKING BLEEDING.....

....that he should be cautioned for it??

I mean, is this April 1st???

I cannot believe people are stating this.

That you'd rather have a player bleed onto the field of play rather than seek medical attention for an immediate concern.

Not seeking to benefit the team. Not gaining an underhanded advantage. Not taking the mickey out of the laws. Simply trying to stop a bleed with urgency.

Just stop and think about how ridiculous that actually is.

My god, I pity the players of any referee who thinks that course of action is even close to being appropriate.:grumpy:

LAWS PEOPLE!!! It's not enough to know them - UNDERSTAND THEM!!!!!!!
 
Laws are laws...

I just hope those that promote cautioning in the scenario mentioned by the OP also caution any player who leaves the FOP to retrieve a ball without asking for permission.

Practice what you preach and all that.
 
I know of a cup semi final where a team scored a last minute winner, the bench jumped up and celebrated (as you would) and encroached about 5 yards onto the pitch. The referee marched over and cautioned all 5 substitutes for entering the field of play without permission.
 
zarathustra said:
Laws are laws...

I just hope those that promote cautioning in the scenario mentioned by the OP also caution any player who leaves the FOP to retrieve a ball without asking for permission.

Practice what you preach and all that.
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Law 3 states "Any player who crosses a boundary line as part of a playing movement, does not commit an offence" In my eyes, this accommodates the taking of a restart such as a throw-in, corner kick and a goal kick.
 
Yampy said:
Law 3 states "Any player who crosses a boundary line as part of a playing movement, does not commit an offence" In my eyes, this accommodates the taking of a restart such as a throw-in, corner kick and a goal kick.
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What about a player who leave the FOP without permission to retrieve the ball from a tree and then gives it to a team mate to take the restart?

It’s not part of a playing movement, so must be caution worthy...
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
Right. So a player being short of breath runs off the field and grabs an asthma puffer out of his bag, and you're going to book him for it????
Give me a break. :wall::wall:
It's called common sense and understanding the spirit of the game. And that means you look at each situation on its merits. Not book the 12 year old on a full team running off the field while the ball is at the other end to grab his asthma puffer because at some point somewhere in the world somebody with 7 players might think to feign an injury to abandon the match or god knows what your point actually was.
Once I started typing that, the more I realised that none of our 'what if.... 7 players' scenarios weren't even relevant to the question.
Your first one...well obviously if you don't know it's not an issue, and if you do know you deal with it at the stoppage.

As for the second, again you're just trying to cloud the issue with barely relevant scenarios. And that scenario has nothing to do with deliberately leaving the field given the exact same thing can occur when a defender has naturally overrun the goal line.

Wait a minute, I have to back up.

Do we seriously....

...seriously.....
....have people on here saying that if a bleeding player takes himself off the field.....

....BECAUSE HE IS FREAKING BLEEDING.....

....that he should be cautioned for it??

I mean, is this April 1st???

I cannot believe people are stating this.

That you'd rather have a player bleed onto the field of play rather than seek medical attention for an immediate concern.

Not seeking to benefit the team. Not gaining an underhanded advantage. Not taking the mickey out of the laws. Simply trying to stop a bleed with urgency.

Just stop and think about how ridiculous that actually is.

My god, I pity the players of any referee who thinks that course of action is even close to being appropriate.:grumpy:

LAWS PEOPLE!!! It's not enough to know them - UNDERSTAND THEM!!!!!!!
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Did you read what I wrote or, just go off on one because I said I was in @Padfoot's corner? That was 1 sentence in 5 paragraphs.
The point of my two examples was to ascertain if a player who leaves the FOP without permission, is he still active or considered active in the game? Therefore, in #1, is the team down to 6 players or still at 7? In #2, does the player remain active and is he the second last defender?
 
zarathustra said:
What about a player who leave the FOP without permission to retrieve the ball from a tree and then gives it to a team mate to take the restart?

It’s not part of a playing movement, so must be caution worthy...
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Of course - delaying the restart of play.
 
Well, the Law does suggest a referee must caution players who delay the restart of play by appearing to take a throw-in but suddenly leaving it to a team-mate to take.
You can make your own minds up as to whether I'm joking or cautioning.
 
Padfoot said:
Because there isn't. There is a point of view that ignores the LOTG and makes up some fantasy interpretation which eases peoples feelings about deliberately misapplying the LOTG.

But hey....that seems to be the fashion on here....picking and choosing which aspects of the LOTG are worth applying and which to ignore. Which begs the question why are you refereeing?
Clearly not interested in doing the job properly, making up interpretations to make your job easier rather than being prepared to make the difficult decisions and apply the LOTG fairly, consistently and without favour.

No wonder the state of refereeing is in such a decline.
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Padfoot, I don't think I've ever disagreed with your interpretation of the law, but to be frank, at grass roots football there are quite a few mandatory/technical cautions that I'm reluctant to apply. I'll do it, but I usually give each team one warning before I do so, am I wrong? Of course I am, still won't do it though!
 
There's a serious injury on the pitch. So every player goes off for a drink and the coach gives instructions. You are over at the injured player and have NOT told anyone they can go for a drink. Do you caution every player??
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
Anybody that thinks you should be cautioning for this needs to understand the laws of the game rather than simply attempting to apply the text like a mindless bureaucrat. Of course you're not going to caution somebody for stepping off the field to attend to a bleed.
And your assessor is wrong - he certainly does need permission to return to the field.
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Assessor has got confused with a recent change that now allows players back on after they have corrected equipment - ie put a boot back on - whilst ball is in play - previously they had to wait for a stoppage.
 
Jim Garrett said:
There's a serious injury on the pitch. So every player goes off for a drink and the coach gives instructions. You are over at the injured player and have NOT told anyone they can go for a drink. Do you caution every player??
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Seen it done.
 
Yampy said:
Law 3 states "Any player who crosses a boundary line as part of a playing movement, does not commit an offence" In my eyes, this accommodates the taking of a restart such as a throw-in, corner kick and a goal kick.
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Bang on.

zarathustra said:
What about a player who leave the FOP without permission to retrieve the ball from a tree and then gives it to a team mate to take the restart?

It’s not part of a playing movement, so must be caution worthy...
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Very tenuous objection there......I would give them the benefit of the doubt and consider it part of a playing movement...you know, spirit of the game, what would Jesus football want etc etc

Yampy said:
Well, the Law does suggest a referee must caution players who delay the restart of play by appearing to take a throw-in but suddenly leaving it to a team-mate to take.
You can make your own minds up as to whether I'm joking or cautioning.
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Loving that train of thought.....would be hard pressed to find an argument against that if you considered the retrieval and subsequent leaving of the throw in to be a deliberate ploy to waste time........
Can just see it now....the plodding centre back retrieves the ball, instead of the whippet like winger, and then leaves the throw in to the aforementioned whippet like winger.......
 
There is absolutely no way I'd caution a bleeding player for leaving the FOP without permission.

He's BLEEEDING!! What's he supposed to do? Run over and check with the referee with blood pouring from his nose? In this scenario, the player has my permission as far as I'm concerned. If that means I'm not following the LotG, then so be it.
 
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