A&H

BEL vs MOR Matchday 7 - Ramos (MEX)

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Therealcjhill said:
Agree about telling us but do we really need a VAR screen review to decide interfering or not. Was VAR really intended for this use.
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Well, if the R misses it on the field, sure. It,s usually the R that has to make that determination as the AR doesn’t have the angle. But the R often has other things to watch as well. And he can’t give it unless he’s sure. So it isn’t surprising to me that this is a kind of miss by the R that we see and that VAR corrects.
 
es1 said:
Not good enough. You've got the pundits guessing what's going on and why. It's not hard to do. Every other sport with a form of var does it so much better
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The pundits knew they were checking for possible offside. They even said as such.
 
RefIADad said:
I didn't think Ramos was good in this game, but I'll defend him on this play. With all of the commotion around that set piece, it would be pretty hard to put all of the pieces together. Plus, the Moroccan player was some distance from Courtois. AR2 stood still on the line instead of running up the touchline, so he was communicating a player in an offside position. I'd say this was a great call by AR2, a (tough but understandable) onfield miss by Ramos, and an excellent use of VAR to recommend the onfield review and subsequent decision to overturn the goal.

I've been a critic of VAR for a lot of reasons, but this is one where I think it was used very well (probably helped that the offside VAR is an American MLS AR, where they use VAR very well in my opinion). It's a tough call to nail on-field. Ramos awarded the goal, VAR recommended a review, and he got to the right call. We can debate a lot about VAR (and obviously have), but I think this is the type of play that shows it can be a force for good in the game.
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My question here is, why didn't the AR and CR communicate unless the CR didn't realize the AR didn't move up the field. Or if they did communicate, what was said.
 
Of course they communicated, their wearing headsets. (And I’d love to hear the conversation!) My *guess* as to what happened:

goal scored.

AR stands still and tells R he had a player in OSP but can’t tell if he interfered

R and AR discuss

R concludes he isn’t sure if he interfered in which case he properly does not call OS

R tells VAR call on the field (including OSP and not being able to discern interference with opponent)

VAR reviews.

As best I can tell, the protocol was properly followed—the VAR identified the error in not considering thr OSP player to have interfered. (And for better or worse, the clarity required before intervention on that call has pretty consistently been a lower bar than for fouls.)
 
es1 said:
No, you're not getting it. I want what rugby has, I want what cricket has, I want what field hockey has. Is that too much to ask for?
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They put it up on the board. It is up on the TV screen. It isn't like there's no communication. I would love to overhear the conversation while watching on TV, i won't deny that but exclaiming that we don't know what's going on is false.
 
Lkehoe said:
They put it up on the board. It is up on the TV screen. It isn't like there's no communication. I would love to overhear the conversation while watching on TV, i won't deny that but exclaiming that we don't know what's going on is false.
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That is still so unsatisfactory
 
es1 said:
YES! it's what happens in cricket and field hockey. At the rugby league they have an announcer saying what the video ref was looking
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You are aware that they are seeing the replay and not hearing the actual audio right? Unless there is actual audio at an actual cricket match or rugby match. I don't think so but I could be mistaken.
 
Lkehoe said:
You are aware that they are seeing the replay and not hearing the actual audio right? Unless there is actual audio at an actual cricket match or rugby match. I don't think so but I could be mistaken.
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There is at cricket yes
 
es1 said:
YES! it's what happens in cricket and field hockey. At the rugby league they have an announcer saying what the video ref was looking at and why.
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Agree it would improve the process, and might happen once VAR is more mature. But whilst it is still fairly new, and being adapted over time, I doubt they will want to effectively air their dirty laundry in public.

It is also very different to the other sports. In those it is mainly black and white: was the ball hitting the stumps, was the ball grounded for a try, was a pass forward, etc. In football it is a lot more subjective for a lot of decisions that VAR looks at, I also think that fans of the other sports know the laws more than the average football fan does, so the audio might end up causing confusion rather than clarity.
 
FWIW, I don’t believe any of the US pro sports let the audience (TV or stadium) here the conversation. (So far as I know, soccer does the most, often releasing some or all of the conversations in their weekly review.) I’m really not a fan of that idea, as that means the R and VAR have to talk knowing everyone is listening, which can impair communication and being candid. But I do agree that it would be really simple for the VAR team to give a one sentence explanation to the media right after the change is made—at least on ones where it wasn’t obvious.
 
RustyRef said:
Agree it would improve the process, and might happen once VAR is more mature. But whilst it is still fairly new, and being adapted over time, I doubt they will want to effectively air their dirty laundry in public.

It is also very different to the other sports. In those it is mainly black and white: was the ball hitting the stumps, was the ball grounded for a try, was a pass forward, etc. In football it is a lot more subjective for a lot of decisions that VAR looks at, I also think that fans of the other sports know the laws more than the average football fan does, so the audio might end up causing confusion rather than clarity.
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Fair points. I'd like them to at least try something though, anything is better than what we have
 
Therealcjhill said:
Agree about telling us but do we really need a VAR screen review to decide interfering or not. Was VAR really intended for this use.
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Yes and yes. As @RustyRef pointed out, whether a player has interfered with an opponent "is a subjective rather than factual decision, which means the referee must check it."

The VAR can only pass on information to the referee, they are not authorized to make subjective decisions.
 
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