Be aware!

[PinnerPaul]

Decent Isthmian U18s game last night. Nothing remotely confrontational or especially troublesome.

44th minute, far side from me (as Junior AR), about 20 yards in the 'far' half, player halts an attack by grabbing attacker, not really a 'promising attack' but no attempt to play the ball whatsoever so a yellow could be sold. Referee calls player over, I'm looking to see if I can see his number in case a yellow is coming.

Suddenly there is a shout from the bench directly opposite me, "He's head butted him ref!" and there's a player on the floor.

None of us 3 saw it, referee made a show of asking both us ARs, explained to the coach that he couldn't act on a shout.

'Offender' immediately subbed (very good move). Turns out it was really only a push.

No one in the 'crowd', about 30 - 40, my side saw a thing, until they heard the shout, then of course, they all had an opinion on it!

Player walked 50 yards over to me, to ask why I hadn't seen it!

Still, a lesson to be learned and I AM a little annoyed I didn't see it, but there really was no indication anything like that was going to happen.

2nd half was absolutely fine - no cards and the decent football resumed.

Football eh?!

 

[JamesL]

Decent Isthmian U18s game last night. Nothing remotely confrontational or especially troublesome.

44th minute, far side from me (as Junior AR), about 20 yards in the 'far' half, player halts an attack by grabbing attacker, not really a 'promising attack' but no attempt to play the ball whatsoever so a yellow could be sold. Referee calls player over, I'm looking to see if I can see his number in case a yellow is coming.

Suddenly there is a shout from the bench directly opposite me, "He's head butted him ref!" and there's a player on the floor.

None of us 3 saw it, referee made a show of asking both us ARs, explained to the coach that he couldn't act on a shout.

'Offender' immediately subbed (very good move). Turns out it was really only a push.

No one in the 'crowd', about 30 - 40, my side saw a thing, until they heard the shout, then of course, they all had an opinion on it!

Player walked 50 yards over to me, to ask why I hadn't seen it!

Still, a lesson to be learned and I AM a little annoyed I didn't see it, but there really was no indication anything like that was going to happen.

2nd half was absolutely fine - no cards and the decent football resumed.

Football eh?!

A point I always make in prematch is that it's often the very quietest of games that descend in to chaos. Nothing happens for 90 minutes then 1 decides to be an idiot do something stupid and 22 players suddenly all want to fight each other.

Same principle. Don't be lulled in by a calm game. Always be ready.

 

[RustyRef]

That's exactly why you shouldn't have your junior AR recording cautions. You want that person with his head up and focusing on the entire pitch, not trying to see who is being cautioned or having his head in the notebook. I always used to say I and AR1 record cautions, all AR2 records is goals and anything he was directly involved with.

 

[PinnerPaul]

That's exactly why you shouldn't have your junior AR recording cautions. You want that person with his head up and focusing on the entire pitch, not trying to see who is being cautioned or having his head in the notebook. I always used to say I and AR1 record cautions, all AR2 records is goals and anything he was directly involved with.

Fair enough but a human being can't actually physically 'focus on the entire pitch' as we don't have 180 degree vision!

Possible caution or not, or just a simple foul, I wouldn't have been looking at the benches in any event. My focus would have turned to the 2nd last defender in readiness for the fk to be taken.

Anything happening a yard from the benches, not sure many would be looking to the junior AR for advice in the first or second instance!

Yes I know I said I was annoyed with myself, but 48 hours on, I've been a lot less hard on myself! - in that situation or most others, in the absence of any misconduct or 'noise' from that area, why would I, as junior AR, be looking over there at all?

 

[JamesL]

Fair enough but a human being can't actually physically 'focus on the entire pitch' as we don't have 180 degree vision!

Possible caution or not, or just a simple foul, I wouldn't have been looking at the benches in any event. My focus would have turned to the 2nd last defender in readiness for the fk to be taken.

Anything happening a yard from the benches, not sure many would be looking to the junior AR for advice in the first or second instance!

Yes I know I said I was annoyed with myself, but 48 hours on, I've been a lot less hard on myself! - in that situation or most others, in the absence of any misconduct or 'noise' from that area, why would I, as junior AR, be looking over there at all?

Couple of questions to ponder on...
You were checking the number, which is fine, but did you need to? Were you keeping the "full match record"? What was the purpose of it?
Another important thing to think of which follows, was this just a natural break in play? Or was the referee holding things up. As soon as the latter happens as a Juniour AR I am and would want them scanning around because chances are I am looking at a player stood right in front of me and my senior is likely squinting to see who that person is. As Juniour you become the eyes and ears of the team.

I get really annoyed when I specify in my team brief that only junior keeps score and after a goal both ARs have their head in the notebook because that could mean 3 refs all head in books not watching.

Same with the scenario you present here, you always need one person on the lookout when 2 refs are likely head in book or focusse on one area.

This isn't to say you got it wrong etc. And I am only loosely applying it to your OP it's more general something that those acting as ARs should think about. Do we really want all 3 refs looking in the same direction at a break in play?

 

[lincs22]

That's exactly why you shouldn't have your junior AR recording cautions. You want that person with his head up and focusing on the entire pitch, not trying to see who is being cautioned or having his head in the notebook. I always used to say I and AR1 record cautions, all AR2 records is goals and anything he was directly involved with.

Complete opposite to me - my view was it was better for the more senior AR to watch the players as more experienced. The junior AR would do all the writing. Why lose the more experienced official?

If the senior AR had to take over, then we have all the necessary time for him to get the details before he had to blow the whistle.

 

[lincs22]

I get really annoyed when I specify in my team brief that only junior keeps score and after a goal both ARs have their head in the notebook because that could mean 3 refs all head in books not watching.

Most reported point, on Teamwork, when assisting L4..... Stupid cost of 1/2 mark.
Be warned.

 

[PinnerPaul]

Couple of questions to ponder on...
You were checking the number, which is fine, but did you need to? Were you keeping the "full match record"? What was the purpose of it?
Another important thing to think of which follows, was this just a natural break in play? Or was the referee holding things up. As soon as the latter happens as a Juniour AR I am and would want them scanning around because chances are I am looking at a player stood right in front of me and my senior is likely squinting to see who that person is. As Juniour you become the eyes and ears of the team.

I get really annoyed when I specify in my team brief that only junior keeps score and after a goal both ARs have their head in the notebook because that could mean 3 refs all head in books not watching.

Same with the scenario you present here, you always need one person on the lookout when 2 refs are likely head in book or focusse on one area.

This isn't to say you got it wrong etc. And I am only loosely applying it to your OP it's more general something that those acting as ARs should think about. Do we really want all 3 refs looking in the same direction at a break in play?

Good thoughts James.

Re your last question, I agree we don't, but junior AR is surely 'in charge' of his own half in these situations, as referee is dealing with player in other half and as senior AR has no imminent play/offside in his own half he can half an eye on benches which are obviously a lot closer to him, so on reflection, even if I wasn't looking at the offender/referee (which I agree in hindsight WAS a mistake), I wouldn't have been looking at the benches either.

 

[socal lurker]

I get really annoyed when I specify in my team brief that only junior keeps score and after a goal both ARs have their head in the notebook because that could mean 3 refs all head in books not watching.

Standard practice here is "TLC." Trail AR records first, Lead AR records once he sees T is done, and R (in the center) records last, back up the field when the ARs are done.

 

[JamesL]

Good thoughts James.

Re your last question, I agree we don't, but junior AR is surely 'in charge' of his own half in these situations, as referee is dealing with player in other half and as senior AR has no imminent play/offside in his own half he can half an eye on benches which are obviously a lot closer to him, so on reflection, even if I wasn't looking at the offender/referee (which I agree in hindsight WAS a mistake), I wouldn't have been looking at the benches either.

Fair point. As I say we still might not have seen it but I would say forget your own half. Also senior may be looking into his notepad keeping the match record. Eyes and ears is looking around everywhere for me.
If I was observing and something was missed and the reason given was that it wasn't in my half that's a development.. If you say you simply didn't see it despite looking around everywhere it probably moves towards, if not into, one of those things

 

[JamesL]

Standard practice here is "TLC." Trail AR records first, Lead AR records once he sees T is done, and R (in the center) records last, back up the field when the ARs are done.

Do we really need 3 records of the score... Most likely 4 and 5 because the clubs are recording too.
I'm happy with 2 recording and one not. Probably a regional variation type thing so if thats your practise and it works then that's cool. Seems overkill to me is all

 

[PinnerPaul]

Fair point. As I say we still might not have seen it but I would say forget your own half. Also senior may be looking into his notepad keeping the match record. Eyes and ears is looking around everywhere for me.
If I was observing and something was missed and the reason given was that it wasn't in my half that's a development.. If you say you simply didn't see it despite looking around everywhere it probably moves towards, if not into, one of those things

Fair enough.....................................definitely one of those things then in that case!

 

[socal lurker]

Do we really need 3 records of the score... Most likely 4 and 5 because the clubs are recording too.
I'm happy with 2 recording and one not. Probably a regional variation type thing so if thats your practise and it works then that's cool. Seems overkill to me is all

The way it has been explained to me is that any AR can theoretically end up in the middle before the game is over and should maintain a record. And that way there is a tiebreaker if the R and one AR have different scores! But seriousl, I wouldn’t have a problem with the method you use—the critical thing, IMO, is to always keep two of the sets of eyes on the players.

 

[one]

Fair enough but a human being can't actually physically 'focus on the entire pitch' as we don't have 180 degree vision!

I'd say most times you can't, even with 180 degree vision. You'd need 360 degree vision for that

Standard practice here is "TLC." Trail AR records first, Lead AR records once he sees T is done, and R (in the center) records last, back up the field when the ARs are done.

Similar is followed here but never works for me as I find ARs forget about this when the time comes. Something I find much easier to follow and works for me is, no one records untill we are sure everything is calm and no chance of afters.

Also, I ask both ARs to record (except for recording subs). On many occasions I have had to use the third recording because the first two were different.

 

[Anubis]

Its interesting to read varying methods.

one thing I am huge on is, if I issue a red, ARs, do not under any circumstances get a book out. If they must, then play catch up when the player has long gone

If i as referee am not capable of trusting myself to know and note down i have sent off blue 5, then I should not be out there. Blue 5 is gone, I have no risk of second yellowing him, noting him as being subbed, nothing, Gone.
Red card is a huge moment in a game, flashpoint, risk of retribution, gestures, coaches screaming, maybe an injured player, I need both ars fully being eyes and ears.
Thats my own take on something, we all have our quirks

there was one ar long long ago who ignored this. Lets just say ' accidents happen........."


What I would add is ( regional variations apply), its hammered home here in learning that all three officials must have a fully accurate up to date record of the game. so much so, its known for books to be inspected.

" because he said not to write" is not accepted.

Someone staying on pitch after being double yellowed, all three ( or four) officials are hit

In reality, we all know all books are not 100% carbon copies at all times and we adapt to what works best for us.

one thing absolutely to avoid is three heads in book at same time, ideally, avoid two at same time also. There is no panic, use the time wisely, it might just be a gd time to slow game down, plus, its vital to note the correct information.

have seen it already this season, an ar who was asked to take cautions, missed one, as he waa unsure of the number. ( i was watching, not taking part)
If you are asked to take numbers, and you aint picked up the number, ask!
basic communication,

 

[GraemeS]

have seen it already this season, an ar who was asked to take cautions, missed one, as he waa unsure of the number. ( i was watching, not taking part)
If you are asked to take numbers, and you aint picked up the number, ask!
basic communication,

Interestingly, I think this follows on a trend from the other thread about AR duties. There's no way on earth I want the junior AR flagging, insisting I jog over only so he can update the 3rd record book with the number of a cautioned player, or even to confirm the intended caution code. We don't have comms until a pretty high level here, most matches with 3 officials are taking place with buzzers only, some even without that.

Maybe it's because referees in the UK are mostly quite familiar with working alone, but I always treat my record as gospel. The senior AR taking a record solves two purposes: to save me having to jog over for subs, and if he needs it when he steps into the middle and for whatever reason my injury is so bad I can't take the time to check everything that's happened so far. I guess in theory it's a nice backup if my book becomes unreadable or I somehow think I've got something wrong, but I simply don't let that happen - because if I let it happen at grassroots while on my own, I'm screwed!

But if an AR is confirming cautions or goals with me post match and there's a difference, then we go with my book, end of.

 

[PinnerPaul]

I'd say most times you can't, even with 180 degree vision. You'd need 360 degree vision for that


Similar is followed here but never works for me as I find ARs forget about this when the time comes. Something I find much easier to follow and works for me is, no one records untill we are sure everything is calm and no chance of afters.

Also, I ask both ARs to record (except for recording subs). On many occasions I have had to use the third recording because the first two were different.

Field of Vision - I was talking as an AR - no one wants to be able to see the spectators!

 

[Anubis]

Interestingly, I think this follows on a trend from the other thread about AR duties. There's no way on earth I want the junior AR flagging, insisting I jog over only so he can update the 3rd record book with the number of a cautioned player, or even to confirm the intended caution code. We don't have comms until a pretty high level here, most matches with 3 officials are taking place with buzzers only, some even without that.

Maybe it's because referees in the UK are mostly quite familiar with working alone, but I always treat my record as gospel. The senior AR taking a record solves two purposes: to save me having to jog over for subs, and if he needs it when he steps into the middle and for whatever reason my injury is so bad I can't take the time to check everything that's happened so far. I guess in theory it's a nice backup if my book becomes unreadable or I somehow think I've got something wrong, but I simply don't let that happen - because if I let it happen at grassroots while on my own, I'm screwed!

But if an AR is confirming cautions or goals with me post match and there's a difference, then we go with my book, end of.

There cannot be a difference tho. The books must match, Must.
the confirming gets done where it can be, erm, confirmed,

sitting in dressing room you both unsure of whether it was a 3 or 8 is farcical.

maybe my standards are too high, I dunno,

 

[RobOda]

Complete opposite to me - my view was it was better for the more senior AR to watch the players as more experienced. The junior AR would do all the writing. Why lose the more experienced official?

I always figured it was Senior AR took the details because they're the ones coming on if an injury occurs etc. So it's easier for them to have the notes. (Well, they won't be able to understand my notes anyway!)

 

[Tim - 2013]

Zidane.

When the top referees miss that, I don't feel bad when I don't have a 4th referee, referees in a booth, and TV broadcasters.