Backpasses

[Goldfish]

**For me, a GK can roll the ball out to a team mate who then controls it, realises there's danger, gets a shout from his GK to "Leave" who can then pounce on the ball and no offence has taken place since the ball wasn't deliberately kicked**

That is an offence every single time. The control contact by the team mate is deemed a deliberate kick. The ball is kicked when the team mates makes contact with the foot no matter if the ball moves any distance ot not.
Sure on your basis a goalkeeper could throw the ball to a team mate in tne penalty area who steps on it and then leave it for the goalkeeper to pick it up with no offence and then repeat it to the other side of the penalty area with another team mate. It makes no difference who shouts what. It does not happen as its an offence.
Ask IFAB if you dont believe that.

 

[Kes]

**For me, a GK can roll the ball out to a team mate who then controls it, realises there's danger, gets a shout from his GK to "Leave" who can then pounce on the ball and no offence has taken place since the ball wasn't deliberately kicked**

That is an offence every single time. The control contact by the team mate is deemed a deliberate kick. The ball is kicked when the team mates makes contact with the foot no matter if the ball moves any distance ot not.
Sure on your basis a goalkeeper could throw the ball to a team mate in tne penalty area who steps on it and then leave it for the goalkeeper to pick it up with no offence and then repeat it to the other side of the penalty area with another team mate. It makes no difference who shouts what. It does not happen as its an offence.
Ask IFAB if you dont believe that.

Not going to argue the toss over this any more. I read and interpret the LOTG as they're written. I don't think you're correct.
Deliberately kicking the ball to your own GK is simple enough to understand for me without asking IFAB.

 

[NOVARef]

I remember having this discussion here a while back. I believe the consensus is that the ball has to be deliberately kicked to the GK. Not just deliberately kicked. I remember some examples were brought up such a player playing back to his centerback and the the centerback allowing it to roll through to the GK. The consensus was that this was NOT an offense because it was NOT deliberately kicked TO THE GK. I remember some saying that they would give a verbal warning to be careful because you wouldn't want to see that again. Another example was a square pass from one centerback to the other across the box and the GK stepping up and intercepting it. I believe the consensus was NOT an offense for the same reasoning but some would give a verbal warning to be careful.

 

[Dan56]

I believe that we are now getting to the point of the Law, the Law states: "deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team mate". All three need to be there to be an offence. So:

1 If the ball has been kicked by an opponent, there is no offence
2 If the ball was kicked by a team mate and it spun off unintentionally, straight to keeper: no offence
3 If the ball was kicked deliberately to another defender and keeper dived on it: no offence.
4 Ball hit with anything other than foot or ankle: no offence.

In the case we are all arguing, if the defender traps the ball and keeper picks it up, we have to guess whether the defender meant the keeper to get it. If so: IFK. If not: play on. Novaref has it all spot on.

 

[CaptainsPlease]

If a defender traps the ball, it is 'kicked' but it is not being 'kicked to' anyone as it remains under the defender's control.

 

[WiisardNic]

I believe that we are now getting to the point of the Law, the Law states: "deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team mate". All three need to be there to be an offence. So:

1 If the ball has been kicked by an opponent, there is no offence
2 If the ball was kicked by a team mate and it spun off unintentionally, straight to keeper: no offence
3 If the ball was kicked deliberately to another defender and keeper dived on it: no offence.
4 Ball hit with anything other than foot or ankle: no offence.

In the case we are all arguing, if the defender traps the ball and keeper picks it up, we have to guess whether the defender meant the keeper to get it. If so: IFK. If not: play on. Novaref has it all spot on.

If a defender traps the ball, it is 'kicked' but it is not being 'kicked to' anyone as it remains under the defender's control.

I'll add to this, because I think someone else mentioned it in a scenario - if there's a shout of 'leave it', I personally would take the 'kick' that leads to the keeper picking it up as deliberate.

 

[NOVARef]

I'll add to this, because I think someone else mentioned it in a scenario - if there's a shout of 'leave it', I personally would take the 'kick' that leads to the keeper picking it up as deliberate.

Based on previous discussions and my interpretation as well, this would not be an offense...at least not the first time. So if, IN THE OPINION OF THE REFEREE, the teammate's intention was to pass it to his centerback per se, and the GK yelled "leave it" and picked it up, I would not consider this an offense because in my opinion it was NOT deliberately kicked TO THE GK. However, I would give a verbal warning to be careful because, if it happened again, I may feel that the intent was to kick it to the GK and they are just manipulating the situation.

 

[RefereeX]

I feel like we're dangerously close to starting to talk about whether shouting 'leave it' is an IDFK offence anyway

 

[WiisardNic]

Based on previous discussions and my interpretation as well, this would not be an offense...at least not the first time. So if, IN THE OPINION OF THE REFEREE, the teammate's intention was to pass it to his centerback per se, and the GK yelled "leave it" and picked it up, I would not consider this an offense because in my opinion it was NOT deliberately kicked TO THE GK. However, I would give a verbal warning to be careful because, if it happened again, I may feel that the intent was to kick it to the GK and they are just manipulating the situation.

Yes, I believe that this is something that a team can only get away with once a game (as after that it will be clear to the referee that it's a deliberate act, and therefore a deliberate kick).

No qualms on the keeper intercepting a pass to the centreback on their own accord. Just specifically the scenario of ball at the feet of the defender.
If there's no kick to pass made, and either player shouts "leave it" (although if the defender says it, they're probably going to say something more like "I'll leave it for you"), that just gives cause to the deliberate act/kick to me.

If the keeper is shouting 'leave it' after the ball has left the foot, there's no doubt that it's not a 'deliberate kick to the GK' to me.

One of those weird nuances.

 

[socal lurker]

From a spirit of the game, I like looking for the ball being intended for the GK. From an ease of application, the now-disavowed USSF teaching was easier. If the bal was deliberately kicked somewhere (not a miskick) the GK couldn’t pick handle. Despite it having g been easier, I’m glad the U.S. joined the rest of the world in being more focussed on the intent of the kicker.

 

[Viridis1886]

I hate to make this even longer... but I'm going to.

What if the keeper is playing a high line (say 10 yards out of the area) and receives a deliberate pass from the defender. The keeper dribbles forward towards the half way line to make a pass but all options are closed off. They then retreat back to their box and pick up the ball. Offence committed?

 

[Ste500]

I hate to make this even longer... but I'm going to.

What if the keeper is playing a high line (say 10 yards out of the area) and receives a deliberate pass from the defender. The keeper dribbles forward towards the half way line to make a pass but all options are closed off. They then retreat back to their box and pick up the ball. Offence committed?

Then this would be a back pass and a IFK awarded.

 

[RefereeX]

I hate to make this even longer... but I'm going to.

What if the keeper is playing a high line (say 10 yards out of the area) and receives a deliberate pass from the defender. The keeper dribbles forward towards the half way line to make a pass but all options are closed off. They then retreat back to their box and pick up the ball. Offence committed?

Definite offence because he was deliberately passed the ball and in the same spell of possession he ended up picking it up. The only thing that would change that is if the goalkeeper attempted to play the ball and miskicked it before picking it up.

 

[socal lurker]

I hate to make this even longer... but I'm going to.

What if the keeper is playing a high line (say 10 yards out of the area) and receives a deliberate pass from the defender. The keeper dribbles forward towards the half way line to make a pass but all options are closed off. They then retreat back to their box and pick up the ball. Offence committed?

I mean if you want to make it really extreme, you could even put the GK on attack, receiving a pass from a forward in thr attacking PA and mysteriously dribbling all the way back to his own PA and picking up the ball. Clear offense. It’s really simple—if the ball is deliberately kicked to the GK, he can’t pick it up until touched by someone else or he miskicks it trying to deliver into play. Nothing about location or direction of 0lay matters at all. (As someone else said, the colloquially “back pass” does a disservice, as neither the language not intent of the Law has anything to do with “back”;but it’s a convenient linguistic short cut and people are going to keep using it.)