The Ref Stop

Back pass.

S

spuddy1878

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Had an incident which almost caught me out or at least i wasnt 100% sure on.

A defender is running towards his own goal and tries to play the ball to a team mate but hes slightly of balance, it goes back to the goalkeeper.

It wasn't a sliced clearance where you could 100% say it wasn't a deliberate back pass.

So should a goalkeeper be punished for picking up the ball if a back pass was meant for a team mate ?
 
The Ref Stop
spuddy1878 said:
Had an incident which almost caught me out or at least i wasnt 100% sure on.

A defender is running towards his own goal and tries to play the ball to a team mate but hes slightly of balance, it goes back to the goalkeeper.

It wasn't a sliced clearance where you could 100% say it wasn't a deliberate back pass.

So should a goalkeeper be punished for picking up the ball if a back pass was meant for a team mate ?
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Yes absolutely if it was a pass. He is a team mate regardless of being a gk.
 
spuddy1878 said:
Had an incident which almost caught me out or at least i wasnt 100% sure on.

A defender is running towards his own goal and tries to play the ball to a team mate but hes slightly of balance, it goes back to the goalkeeper.

It wasn't a sliced clearance where you could 100% say it wasn't a deliberate back pass.

So should a goalkeeper be punished for picking up the ball if a back pass was meant for a team mate ?
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The referee needs to decide whether the ball was deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by the defender. If so, ifk. If not, play continues.
 
ChasTutorObserver said:
The referee needs to decide whether the ball was deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by the defender. If so, ifk. If not, play continues.
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This (except that it could also be an attacker from the keeper's team :) ).

And you need to be wary of a ruse. If it is meant for another team mate (not keeper) and that team mate deliberately leaves it for the keeper to pick it up, they get a warning from me. If they repeat it, I might even caution for the more severe offence of circumventing the laws.
 
It's interesting wording on this law as you could perhaps interpret it both ways ie deliberate kick intended for the goal keeper, or deliberate kick that goes to the goal keeper.
Generally it is applied that the pass is intended for the keeper - but now I am thinking about it I am questioning the correctness of that and perhaps the latter interpretation is correct. Who knows....
 
JamesL said:
It's interesting wording on this law as you could perhaps interpret it both ways ie deliberate kick intended for the goal keeper, or deliberate kick that goes to the goal keeper.
Generally it is applied that the pass is intended for the keeper - but now I am thinking about it I am questioning the correctness of that and perhaps the latter interpretation is correct. Who knows....
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Yeah we can over-think this one (as with many other facets of the laws).

For me, if a defender plays it to a team mate and the team mate lets it "run through" or even gets a shout from his GK then I'm penalising the GK if he then picks it up. If it looks, sounds or smells like a back pass then thats what it is (IMO). :)
 
In regards to the OP.. think it may be a YHTBT moment.

Backpasses are hard to weigh up, as folk have already alluded to... you almost have to judge the intentions / actions of 2, maybe even 3 players.

From a match control perspective, I think it is always worth considering that if you give a back pass; it will likely be as well remembered come the 90th min as a pen / red card (it may not even come to anything, but it won't slip the minds of coaches / Players / secretaries etc)..

On that note, I would want to be absolutely dead certain it is a back pass before giving it! Any shadow of doubt I'd wave it away. Highly unlikely you'll be hassled for the IDFK you didn't give come the end of the game.
 
Also worth mentioning that the definition of a 'pass' is generally extended to any touch of the ball with the foot that is intended to be played by the GK. For example trapping a ball for the GK to pick up should also be penalised (if he/she does so of course!)
 
The backpass debate has a 2 year lifecycle on this forum. We get a thread with a few pages every couple of years.

The offside and handball debates have a one yearly lifecycle, coinciding with yearly law changes.

The VAR debate is weekly, coinciding with every PL round.
 
Russell Jones said:
Also worth mentioning that the definition of a 'pass' is generally extended to any touch of the ball with the foot that is intended to be played by the GK. For example trapping a ball for the GK to pick up should also be penalised (if he/she does so of course!)
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Agreed. Unless of course the "trapping" is done with the knee/shin/stomach/chest etc.

It always amazes me that some players seem to think that anything that isn't done with the head constitutes a "back pass". :rolleyes:
 
Wow. It's not often that players know about the laws more than the referees. There are always exceptions. The AR's didn't save him either. That behaviour is appalling though.
 
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one said:
Wow. It's not often that player know about the laws more than the referees. There are always exceptions. The AR's didn't save him eaither. That behaviour is appalling though.
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this is almost an expected reaction (certainly imo for a mistake like that at that level) which shows i'm part of the problem!

you cant expect teams to just go oh well and get on with it with mistakes like this, or can you?! i'm sure you'd get some level of dissent in any sport at any level with a major law/rule balls up
 
bester said:
Some level 3 refs as well
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Nah. That's not ignorance of the laws at all - that's just having a poor viewing angle and assuming the player used his foot rather than the knee.

My guess is his assistant either missed it or viewed it the same way (though hard to believe) which is why he found himself the victim of his own F-up.

In any event, were that me in the middle, I'd be jogging over to my AR and clarifying whether or not I'd arsed up. By not doing so, he's made it appear that he actually doesn't know the laws. :wtf:
 
one said:
Wow. It's not often that player know about the laws more than the referees. There are always exceptions. The AR's didn't save him eaither. That behaviour is appalling though.
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Couple of former premier league players in that clip. The one who played it back is Darren Purse, Black striker running back is Barry Hayles.
 
es1 said:
this is almost an expected reaction (certainly imo for a mistake like that at that level) which shows i'm part of the problem!

you cant expect teams to just go oh well and get on with it with mistakes like this, or can you?! i'm sure you'd get some level of dissent in any sport at any level with a major law/rule balls up
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I don't think you specifically are part of the problem but the expectation set is. And you have the same expectations.

How often do you see a batsman given out caught behind who has clearly missed the ball react like that? Yes you may see a slight disagree ment like a shake of the head but nothing like that. We as the whole football community should change those expectations.
 
"after it has been deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate" seems very clear.

Reminds me of a moment in futsal the other week. In the little game we are taught that any kick of the ball by a defender that the keeper picks up is an offence, even if there is a kick of the ball and a deflection off another defender. Obviously this might be common sense - pitch is small so any pass in your own third is potentially a pass the GK. It's got me thinking though.
 
one said:
I don't think you specifically are part of the problem but the expectation set is. And you have the same expectations.

How often do you see a batsman given out caught behind who has clearly missed the ball react like that? Yes you may see a slight disagree ment like a shake of the head but nothing like that. We as the whole football community should change those expectations.
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ha depends who! i've seen team mates demolish the stumps (but then get a 6 game ban and £100 fine) twice! exception to the rule i know...step 6/7 footballer in my area too so fun, as you can imagine, to come across on the pitch!

seriously though you're right of course, 99% of the time. i've had some shockers while batting and bowling, you just grit your teeth and walk off
 
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santa sangria said:
"after it has been deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate" seems very clear.

Reminds me of a moment in futsal the other week. In the little game we are taught that any kick of the ball by a defender that the keeper picks up is an offence, even if there is a kick of the ball and a deflection off another defender. Obviously this might be common sense - pitch is small so any pass in your own third is potentially a pass the GK. It's got me thinking though.
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In futsal of course the keeper does not always have to pick it up for it to be an offence. The two touch offence is important to not make it a defensive game. And for that reason the 'back pass' law (including two touch) is applied with a much bigger net.
 
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