A&H

Argentina - Iceland

santa sangria said:
No, these two were both clear and obvious with the replay.
If the ref says no foul and then the replay shows it was a foul - it is a clear and obvious error. You keep trying to defend this VAR indecision with the clear and obvious line... these were clear and obvious.
You mention minimal interference in the other thread. What is the point if the VAR is not going to act on clear and obvious errors at goal/no goal situations. Is VAR going to actually start to take decisions and start to work in the knock outs... or in the final group games...

And I've just watched the France VAR call. That is not as clear and obvious as the other two examples. Bizarre.
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Santa, the ref is entitled to think the Argie was looking to go to ground. He did not miss the incident, he was right there. He had no interest in a review. I like that, even though i think he got the decision wrong
 
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Big Cat said:
Santa, the ref is entitled to think the Argie was looking to go to ground. He did not miss the incident, he was right there. He had no interest in a review. I like that, even though i think he got the decision wrong
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I think the ref thought there was no contact.
Neither of us know what the ref thought.
All we know is there was no call and there was a foul that should have been a PK.

I am happy for that not to be given in a game of football. But if you/we/they are gonna pontificate with this VAR rubbish about getting all major decisions right then I am not happy.
 
"Clear and obvious" is confusing everyone and causing this whole controversy. People are mistaking VAR not thinking it is clear and obvious with VAR taking the wrong decision. Clear and obvious is so subjective so it's ridiculous to use that as a qualifier for VAR to intervene.
 
Big Cat said:
So we agree that the use of VAR for penalty decisions is intrinsically flawed? VAR takes center stage, merely deflecting controversy and magnifying it in the process
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I never would have said that's not the case.

There will always be absolute clear PKs not given and absolute clear dives given as PKs. Most of us agree that we want those fixed.

There are going to be PKs not given when you look at them and say "yeah thats a foul" but not "yeah that's an absolute stonewall penalty".

There are going to be PKs not given when you look at them at say "yeah that's probably a foul"

You probably think the line should be drawn below the first case. I'm more in the view it should be drawn near the 2nd example. But no matter where we draw the line, there will always be an example that is really damn close to it.

I think the PK not given is a foul. I think it's clear and obvious. But I don't think it was a stonewall penalty. It was very close to the grey area of "clear and obvious" and that will always be an issue.
 
santa sangria said:
Now that I can see that VAR is not being "used" in these games I am going to incredibly hacked off when VAR is at last used to give a penalty decision or cancel a goal over a foul decision/non decision. An offside will be easy to swallow... but the Costa and Pavon situations... argh
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This is where your argument falls down. I don’t think Costa did anything wrong and the referee was correct.
If VAR thinks the same, it’s not a clear and obvious mistake
 
santa sangria said:
I think the ref thought there was no contact.
Neither of us know what the ref thought.
All we know is there was no call and there was a foul that should have been a PK.

I am happy for that not to be given in a game of football. But if you/we/they are gonna pontificate with this VAR rubbish about getting all major decisions right then I am not happy.
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OK, I'm roughly on your side, I think!
Just to chuck another one in. In real time, I'm not sure i'm giving the penalty that was given. I fear VAR will result in more games decided from the penalty spot (than penalties overturned on review)
 
Big Cat said:
OK, I'm roughly on your side, I think!
Just to chuck another one in. In real time, I'm not sure i'm giving the penalty that was given. I fear VAR will result in more games decided from the penalty spot (than penalties overturned on review)
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Agreed no way I could see that from in real time - probably not from 10 m away either!

Now, if that was the VAR criteria... only overturning decisions that could/should be seen in real time - that would be something else... but they have replays and slo mo -albeit under guidance not to overuse...
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Do VARs check everything??
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Are you really using an image of the moment the GK saves the ball as evidence he was off his line? I'm rather disappointing in you Shef. I figured you'd know better.

Here's the moment the ball was kicked.

9jL5TOK.jpg
 
cwyeary said:
I never would have said that's not the case.

There will always be absolute clear PKs not given and absolute clear dives given as PKs. Most of us agree that we want those fixed.

There are going to be PKs not given when you look at them and say "yeah thats a foul" but not "yeah that's an absolute stonewall penalty".

There are going to be PKs not given when you look at them at say "yeah that's probably a foul"

You probably think the line should be drawn below the first case. I'm more in the view it should be drawn near the 2nd example. But no matter where we draw the line, there will always be an example that is really damn close to it.

I think the PK not given is a foul. I think it's clear and obvious. But I don't think it was a stonewall penalty. It was very close to the grey area of "clear and obvious" and that will always be an issue.
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If there is a place for it, reserve it for cheating and stone wallers. No controversy, no players surrounding the ref and no indecision by the ref
 
cwyeary said:
Are you really using an image of the moment the GK saves the ball as evidence he was off his line? I'm rather disappointing in you Shef. I figured you'd know better.

Here's the moment the ball was kicked.

9jL5TOK.jpg
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It perhaps cements my view, but i think the ref had a decent game. He believed in his decisions and it would have been a perfectly acceptable outcome for both teams, in the absence of VAR
 
I wasn’t making any assumptions of whether it was ok, I specifically asked if the VARs job was to check everything just in case??
 
one said:
Come on SF, no excuses. You know we know why you posted that? :) Why would you add that specific image?
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I’m fully au fait with the LOTG, I was using a stock image to ask a pertinent question on the joys of VAR... Nowhere did I say there was an error....Keep up boys! :poop:
 
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JH said:
Those instructions were pathetic, basically said 'don't care if it wasn't deliberate, if they take the risk, give it'

Never in a million years is that deliberate handball
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Totally agree. I think this also gives the lie to the claim that the instructions in the video that @one refers to were official FIFA and/or IFAB guidelines that were being taught in all high-level FIFA referee training courses. If that were the case, those 'instructions' would certainly have been passed on in the sessions held to prepare referees for what is FIFA's flagship tournament and this would have been given as a penalty.
 
if you look at the picture above the ref wasnt even looking when the penalty was taken, are we all ok with that
 
If the ball crosses the line his watch buzzes, but if the kicker stops he has not seen it. But VAR will so would that be reviewed? My guess is yes but I would watch the the kicker more closely than watching for encroachment, but I am a lonely 7 grass roots ref with no NARs so I have to ref in the way best for the game at my level of football.
 
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