The Ref Stop

(Another) first game

JimmyF

JimmyF

New Member
Level 7 Referee
had my first game yesterday in Bristol, all things considered I thought it went quite well!
I have a broken toe (from the refs course, over enthusiastic 14 year old slid in on me knees first), with a groin strain too (hence why I'm now in black instead of playing)

Game passes by without any major incidents, I think I can count on one hand the number of fouls I gave.
Couple of contentious offsides from both CARs but I think that's par for the course.
I got one decision wrong for certain but only realised after the free kick was taken so kept quiet about that one.
Could have sent a guy off for studs up challenge but his team were hammering the others, he didn't make contact, apologised to the other player and myself and there were 5 minutes left so I pulled him up with the captain and had a stern word, thought it was the sensible decision rather than straight red which wouldn't have benefitted anyone in the circumstances!

Seems Bristol is seriously lacking in refs of any quality so being told after the game I was the best they had in a long time gave me a little confidence I won't have too many issues (I hope!)
 
The Ref Stop
Tin hat on time. Word to the wise, there is a reason why after not giving a red card you're the best they've had.

Honestly, my point of view here is a red card is a red card. What you described doesnt sound like a red card but if in your mind, from your viewing, it was then it should have been issued.

You'll learn over time that some situations can be managed. A bit of dissent can be managed, a few fouls totting up can be managed. But a straight card offence no, never.

Even in games where nothing has happened and everyone is happy 1 event can trigger chaos. Sounds like you got lucky but I know in one of my games if that happened and I didnt issue a red card there could be a mass.con and or players looking for retribution.. which then makes issuing their red card even harder.

Out of interest had the player called you and fing cheating see u next tuesday, in the same circumstances in the game, what would you have done?

I dont mean to chastise you, more invoke some thoughts around disciplinary sanctions. You are a new referee and you'll learn these things bit i think it os really important early on that referees get to grips with disciplinary. Honestly, it will make life easier in the future.
 
Sounds like you handled the game well, and had a confident performance which is great news, especially for a new referee.

As for the red card, you could've possibly made the right decision, however if it was a lot earlier in the match, and you hadn't had sent him off, whats stopping an opposition team clattering through him and breaking his legs as part of the retaliation and you would've had to have sent him off.

In this instance it seems it was a calm game, and you've probably made the right decision, but in other games where the tempo is high, the outcome of showing no card could be different.

Well done though!
 
Nothing better than a surprise red card to spruce up a boring game...baby steps but red is red... don't be afraid to 'spoil' a game, remember it was him that 'spoiled' the game not you for acting on it!!! Remember every day is a learning day...
 
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For youth football especially, the tone of a match can have a huge effect on my willingness to bring out the cards. What is my tolerance level? Where do I start? These were, and still are, common questions for me. I am not embarrassed to say that my tolerance shifts according to the temperature of a match. There are some offences on which you cannot compromise, as has been stated on here (clear SFP, VC, OFFINABUS), but for a borderline reckless challenge, or 'handbags', in a game which is quite benign I will more than likely have a word to ensure they know I've seen it and to remind them that they have used up their warning.

This weekend a parent believed that this approach 'wasn't enough' for a particular foul, and I accept that the match can look different from the perspective of a spectator.

As ever, you can only benefit from reading and feeling (as it were) more matches. This season I've started using a bit of humour with some of the angsty teenagers--fundamentally, they're rarely intimidating, just misguided and still learning their way; this ability to laugh off criticism seems to have gone down a bit better than cool detachment. Having a personality as a referee is not a crime.
 
Agreed. Excellent post.

What I am trying to learn is, if you have a cream (nearly YC) foul or an orange (nearly RC) foul, then a public warning is really important. Not a little chat with the player as you get into position, but a totally clear warning that is obvious to those on and off the field.
 
First thing....why are you refereeing whilst injured? Will only aggravate existing injuries and hinder you from performing at 100%.

Second thing....a red card is a red card. End of. No wonder the team congratulated you at the end....your failure to dismiss their player just saved them a 3 match suspension and the player £35 worth of fines.
Caveat....unless this u12 or lower in which case a more educational approach can be taken...in which case, well done!

Don't get sucked into this trap of believing that because they are kids they somehow escape the LOTG, or any other guff you will hear about 'temperature' of the game etc etc. Just referee what is in front of you and apply the LOTG fairly and proficiently, you'll have no problems.
 
Your description of the supposed maybe red does not sound like it was a red, but then again, of course, without seeing it its hard to judge
 
JimmyF said:
Could have sent a guy off for studs up challenge ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, he didn't make contact,
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Congrats on your first game - always the hardest.
As others have said, a red is a red in all games. But given your description of the offence, it does not sound like excessive force or likely to injury a player.

A "studs-up" challenge is not always a RC offence, it can even be a fair challenge but the circumstances are important. If there was no risk to an opponent, then a free-kick is correct for the careless tackle.

You "could have", which means you weren't certain - so a RC would have been an incorrect decision.
 
Thanks all for the comments, certainly seems to have provoked a response and opinions differ from person to person so that's exactly what I'm trying to learn and gain judgement with!

I think I should clear up a little on the first game, first of all it was a fairy open high tempo, end to end game. Despite one team getting hammered they were 'at the races' just couldn't put the ball in the net.

The tackle in question itself, I've seen reds given for them many a time, though I've seen them go unpunished more often so I thought it was one to take in the context and manner in which the game was played, I.e. It was a lazy mistake, reckless, dangerous but I was on the fence if it was worse and as I wasn't sure I didn't feel confident in making a decision that would have changed the manner people were behaving.

I did make a point of stopping the game, bringing the captain in and speaking loudly enough that everyone within 20 yards heard the tone and content.

At the end of the game both teams shook hands and nothing was said by anyone about the incident so I think it passed without incident.
Regarding the comments about the team saying I did well because I didn't send their player off, sorry, but it was the other team so that had nothing to do with it

I think the one thing I've really taken away from the feedback was the timing, it was near the end of the game. I think if it happens earlier and nothing is done it would set a tone that those types of tackles would be allowed which is certainly not the case. If earlier (rightly or wrongly, I am still learning!), I think I would have acted differently
 
lincs22 said:
Congrats on your first game - always the hardest.
As others have said, a red is a red in all games. But given your description of the offence, it does not sound like excessive force or likely to injury a player.

A "studs-up" challenge is not always a RC offence, it can even be a fair challenge but the circumstances are important. If there was no risk to an opponent, then a free-kick is correct for the careless tackle.

You "could have", which means you weren't certain - so a RC would have been an incorrect decision.
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Wow....seriously wow. Talk about stretching an interpretation to blow smoke up someones orifice!

Since when did "could have" only have one possible interpretation? It could equally mean the referee was 100% certain it was a red card, but chose not to go with it because they were fearful of the consequences, intimidated by the situation, had never given one before so didn't know what to do etc etc.
 
JimmyF said:
Thanks all for the comments, certainly seems to have provoked a response and opinions differ from person to person so that's exactly what I'm trying to learn and gain judgement with!

I think I should clear up a little on the first game, first of all it was a fairy open high tempo, end to end game. Despite one team getting hammered they were 'at the races' just couldn't put the ball in the net.

The tackle in question itself, I've seen reds given for them many a time, though I've seen them go unpunished more often so I thought it was one to take in the context and manner in which the game was played, I.e. It was a lazy mistake, reckless, dangerous but I was on the fence if it was worse and as I wasn't sure I didn't feel confident in making a decision that would have changed the manner people were behaving.

I did make a point of stopping the game, bringing the captain in and speaking loudly enough that everyone within 20 yards heard the tone and content.

At the end of the game both teams shook hands and nothing was said by anyone about the incident so I think it passed without incident.
Regarding the comments about the team saying I did well because I didn't send their player off, sorry, but it was the other team so that had nothing to do with it

I think the one thing I've really taken away from the feedback was the timing, it was near the end of the game. I think if it happens earlier and nothing is done it would set a tone that those types of tackles would be allowed which is certainly not the case. If earlier (rightly or wrongly, I am still learning!), I think I would have acted differently
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The first bit of bold highlighting.....totally irrelevant....a red card is a red card.

That word "dangerous"......red card offence. That word "reckless"....yellow card offence. You need to decide which one it was.

Third bit of bold......are you saying you didn't think that a red card would change peoples behaviour? Or that you didn't feel confident in dimissing a player?

Out of interest, what age group was this?
 
Ease off Padfoot, he’s come on here asking for advice, that’s the whole point of the forum I hope. Yes, he may have messed up, haven’t we all.... I’m sure if an experienced assessor watched you he could mark you down for certain decisions... everyday should be a learning day.... hopefully next time he can take on board some of yours and others comments and he may do something different..
 
This is a league I've played in for 20 years, have seen a countless number of unnecessary red and yellow cards, and I've seen teams fold hand over foot because of reactions to decisions that could have been made in error.
I know how much of a decline the sport is seeing in my local leagues and for every new team, two fold.
I've got into the middle to encourage others to do the same, but also to try and preserve a good local presence which is sadly lacking.
As mentioned, I've joined for advice.
Rightly or wrongly, I made a call and there were no repurcussions and both teams accepted my decision.
My comments on here were to ask others if they thought what I did was right
Which seems to be a split opinion!

But hey, thanks all for the comments, taken on board.
 
Its good you are officiating.
Only my opinion, but, to progress or improve or even enjoy your refereeing more in the times to come, can I suggest clearing your head of any popularity contest thoughts or doing charity works for teams who are struggling, these are not remits of a match referee , its not why you are appointed to games and its not fair on next weeks referee who might be angling for promotion and doing things correctly

I applaud in spirit your intentions but from a referee point of view, your mind set is slightly off centre.
 
Dont mind padfoot. He can be a bit forthright with his feedback - but usually for the right reasons.

It is good you have come looking for feedback... padfoot is absolutely right..the tackle has been described as dangerous and reckless and you need to decide which it is and take the neccesary disciplinary sanction.

Truth is you've got away with one here. And by that i mean had the other team taken exception to the lack of discipline that could of lead you down a whole different path and ended up with multiple red cards, which is stark contrast to the reasons you gave for taking up the whistle.

I think the split in opinions comes from the various descriptions. Your actual description does t sound like a red card offence. Several have commented this. But note the recurring theme. Red is Red and should be dealt with as so and there isn't, no, shouldn't be anyone disagreeing.

I'll draw you back to my first comments... you didnt send the player off, what would you have done had a player of the opposition called you an fing cheating c word for not doing? Are you really then going to ignore that and not send off there too as it hasnt been that kind of game... but on the flip side is it fair that 1 player hasnt been dealt with as law requires and then an other has. Refereeing can sometimes be about consistency and sometimes you have no choice but to deal with an event.
 
Sounds like you did ok for your first game.

On the challenge, as @Padfoot points out you used both "dangerous" and "reckless" to describe it.

It doesn't sound to me like you were undecided about the severity of the challenge, but you need to be more careful about your choice of words, if you were to send a player off and in your report described it as both dangerous and reckless and the player appealed the dismissal it could lead to them getting off. But this isn't intended as a dig, just something to consider moving forwards.

The way you described it the challenge, sounds like it may not have been worthy of a red card, but it is one of those that people would need to see it to be sure. But sounds, to me at least, that it may have been worthy of a yellow. I made a similar decision in a match last year, and ended up paying the price with my match control and ended up binning a player for a three card trick, 1 yellow for a foul followed by a second for dissent.

When you have a borderline decision and decide to go for the lesser option I.e a talking to rather than a card, make sure you're doing it for the right reasons, deciding a challenge is borderline is one thing, but not giving a decision or sanction because of worrying about the impact it may have on the match shouldn't come into it.

But, that being said what's done is done, I failed to dismiss a player for DOGSO-H 12 minutes into my first match. 3 years on I still don't know why I didn't, I'd given the penalty and it was nailed on, but we all make mistakes.

Refereeing is like learning to drive, the course teaches how to referee, but it takes time out on the pitch getting matches under your belt to make you a good referee.
 
JimmyF said:
This is a league I've played in for 20 years, have seen a countless number of unnecessary red and yellow cards, and I've seen teams fold hand over foot because of reactions to decisions that could have been made in error.
I know how much of a decline the sport is seeing in my local leagues and for every new team, two fold.
I've got into the middle to encourage others to do the same, but also to try and preserve a good local presence which is sadly lacking.
As mentioned, I've joined for advice.
Rightly or wrongly, I made a call and there were no repurcussions and both teams accepted my decision.
My comments on here were to ask others if they thought what I did was right
Which seems to be a split opinion!

But hey, thanks all for the comments, taken on board.
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Whilst I applaud and welcome any person who pulls on the black and gets in the middle, you need to forget about looking at things from a players perspective.

You talk about "unnecessary red & yellow cards"......obviously only from your playing perspective, because with all due respect, you have very little refereeing experience with which to make such a bold statement.

This may be a totally wrong impression, but you come across as being on some sort of crusade to resolve some injustice that you feel has been done to your league by what you feel have been incompetent officials. After one game.

If i come across as abrupt and brusque, that's probably because I am! Not out of any particular mean or nasty streak, but just because of an increasing frustration with referees, new or old (but mainly new), who cannot seem to grasp the very simple principles of refereeing what is in front of you and applying the LOTG fairly and proficiently.
Don't take it personally, it's not meant to be.

The trick about asking for advice is being prepared to listen even if it isn't what you wanted to hear.
 
I'm 100% of the opinion that it's a learning curve that I'm at the very start of.

After playing for so long, trying to differentiate myself from that mind set is something I've been thinking about and trying to get my head around, but I don't think for a second it'll happen overnight, his month or perhaps this season.

I do value the comments though, hopefully each one provokes a different thought especially when I'm in the middle and making snap judgements.

Getting my head around the LOTG being the LOTG and the fact I'm there to enforce them is the end goal and I'm sure it'll come with time
 
I agree with all of the above. I am still figuring about how best to progress from a quiet warning to a public one. Taking longer over the conversation, calling captains in etc. Is there anything else that shows authority in this regard?
 
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