A&H

Another efl referee error

K

Kent Ref

RefChat Addict
At a game today this happened

Ref gives a foul and takes out the yellow card out. Guilty player walks towards him.

Away team then are allowed to take a quick free kick before the caution has been dealt with .

All home players out of position and away team score in 4 seconds

Ref goes back and cautions player after the goal is scored

This has to be wrong in law
 
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Kent Ref said:
At a game today this happened

Ref gives a foul and takes out the yellow card out. Guilty player walks towards him.

Away team then are allowed to take a quick free kick before the caution has been dealt with .

All home players out of position and away team score in 4 seconds

Ref goes back and cautions player after the goal is scored

This has to be wrong in law
Click to expand...

If it's how you described then wow. The laws are clear once the card comes out then you've started the disciplinary process and a quick restart isn't allowed.
 
Kent Ref said:
At a game today this happened

Ref gives a foul and takes out the yellow card out. Guilty player walks towards him.

Away team then are allowed to take a quick free kick before the caution has been dealt with .

All home players out of position and away team score in 4 seconds

Ref goes back and cautions player after the goal is scored

This has to be wrong in law
Click to expand...
Hmm, that isn't strictly what happened from the video that I've seen. The player who walked towards the referee wasn't the player who was getting the caution, it was a defender who was going to complain.

But yes, I agree that once the card comes out there is no way he should be allowing a quick free kick. Don't see that it is incorrect in law though, rather just really bad practice.
 
RustyRef said:
But yes, I agree that once the card comes out there is no way he should be allowing a quick free kick. Don't see that it is incorrect in law though, rather just really bad practice.
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Once the referee has decided to caution or send off a player, play must not be restarted until the sanction has been administered, unless the non-offending team takes a quick free kick, has a clear goal-scoring opportunity and the referee has not started the disciplinary sanction procedure.
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Surely pulling out the card meets the definition of "starting the disciplinary sanction procedure"
 
cwyeary said:
Surely pulling out the card meets the definition of "starting the disciplinary sanction procedure"
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Possibly, guess it would be argued that it has only been started once the player is called over, and he didn't do that.
 
RustyRef said:
Possibly, guess it would be argued that it has only been started once the player is called over, and he didn't do that.
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Everything I've been taught is once the card comes out you've started the process. I'm on the other side of Atlantic but it seems to be the standard applied since this law change.
 
RustyRef said:
Possibly, guess it would be argued that it has only been started once the player is called over, and he didn't do that.
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Given they dont normally call the player over in the EFL I think you are stretching it here.
For me, if the card has managed it's way out of the pocket the disciplinary process is underway, especially at pro levels.
 
JamesL said:
Given they dont normally call the player over in the EFL I think you are stretching it here.
For me, if the card has managed it's way out of the pocket the disciplinary process is underway, especially at pro levels.
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Yeah, fair point.
 
I wonder if the ref will get a game this Saturday?

For those who have seen the replay what was the thinking here?

After 30 years of reffing I cannot understand the logic.
 
DJIC said:
You could also bring it back, for taking from an in incorrect position given in the final third?
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I’m definitely stopping that FK as soon as taken, even if I’m not thinking about having pulled out the card. Not remotely close enough to the spot of the foul in that field position. (Of course, that ie easier to say sitting comfortably in my bathrobe in a comfy chair . . . )
 
Bigger issue for me is the placing of the free kick. You’ve got to spot that it’s been taken well forward of where the foul was, especially when the player on the ground jumps up in front of you and walks forward.
 
cwyeary said:
If it's how you described then wow. The laws are clear once the card comes out then you've started the disciplinary process and a quick restart isn't allowed.
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Can you point to where the laws clearly state that "once the card comes out then you've started the disciplinary process"?

Now, I would agree that the card coming out probably would be seen by most as the start of the disciplinary process but I don't think it's as clearly spelled out in the laws as you're implying.
 
Kent Ref said:
At a game today this happened

Ref gives a foul and takes out the yellow card out. Guilty player walks towards him.

Away team then are allowed to take a quick free kick before the caution has been dealt with .

All home players out of position and away team score in 4 seconds

Ref goes back and cautions player after the goal is scored

This has to be wrong in law
Click to expand...
Is there a different angle of the incident from the clip posted by @DJIC ? Because on that one, the referee is masked by a player and I can't tell if he's actually taken his card out or was still just reaching for it.
 
I’ve made that mistake.

You can’t let that DFK be taken from 5m from the correct position. That’s a rookie mistake really.
 
Peter Grove said:
Can you point to where the laws clearly state that "once the card comes out then you've started the disciplinary process"?

Now, I would agree that the card coming out probably would be seen by most as the start of the disciplinary process but I don't think it's as clearly spelled out in the laws as you're implying.
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No because the laws aren't that in depth. They also don't clearly describe what it means to "endanger the safety of an opponent" which is why we need additional considerations (studs/no studs, point of contact, speed of challenge, fixed leg vs bent leg, ect...) taught to us from Mt. Collina.

In the pro world of quick flashed YCs on clear SPAs, if pulling the card out of your pocket isn't the start of the process then what is? Because that process is usually over two seconds after the card comes out.
 
I've seen this mistake made from the line. Basically had to tell the ref post-game that he'd made a mess of it, because he essentially tricked the defence into thinking there was no chance of a quick free kick.

He actually then chose to apologies to the defending team manager, which of course did nothing to calm him down!
 
cwyeary said:
No because the laws aren't that in depth. They also don't clearly describe what it means to "endanger the safety of an opponent" which is why we need additional considerations (studs/no studs, point of contact, speed of challenge, fixed leg vs bent leg, ect...) taught to us from Mt. Collina.

In the pro world of quick flashed YCs on clear SPAs, if pulling the card out of your pocket isn't the start of the process then what is? Because that process is usually over two seconds after the card comes out.
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I've already said that I think taking the card out probably is the start of the process, but you stated unequivocally that, "The laws are clear once the card comes out then you've started the disciplinary process."

I'd say that's just factually inaccurate - the laws are not clear on that point.
 
Peter Grove said:
I've already said that I think taking the card out probably is the start of the process, but you stated unequivocally that, "The laws are clear once the card comes out then you've started the disciplinary process."

I'd say that's just factually inaccurate - the laws are not clear on that point.
Click to expand...

Far enough.
 
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