Personally I would wait the usual long second before blowing the whistle. If an attacker has taken advantage and scored in that time then goal. If they've missed, then pull it back for a penalty. If they are still well positioned but haven't scored or missed in that time, penalty. I don't care if they got 'two chances' at scoring, because they were offended against.
Advantage question
- Thread starter HoofItYouDonkey
- Start date
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
If a player in the middle of the field breaks free from a challenge, takes a few steps, then makes a bad pass and kicks it straight out, would you also reward him for his mistake?
I think the scenario being described here is a very rare one ...that is a player who is fouled in the PA and regains full balance and composure and remains a favourable distance from both the goal and no doubt the keeper ....who will not be on his goal line waving his arms ?
we have to take the word "Advantage " into context here...... in the PA an advantage has to a better opportunity than a penalty and IMO that is rare
we have to take the word "Advantage " into context here...... in the PA an advantage has to a better opportunity than a penalty and IMO that is rare
SM
The avuncular one
Was there a foul?
No I wouldn't but as I say above the advantage to be gained by a foul in the PA is much greater than anywhere else on the FOP and this must be taken into consideration
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
It is....it would pretty much have to be an OGSO.
therefor we are arguing/debating for no reason the only problem with playin the above advantage is ......your otherwise gonna be awarding a penalty and the fouling player is gonna be sent off for DOGSO .....! so ..........your actually giving an advantage to the side who have committed the foul ? still lose a goal but keep a player .
I'm getting off this one now ....had enough , aired my views and you can all argue it out
GOOD LUCK
RefereeingBooks
Active Member
There's no way that in my case I would have sent off the fouling player. It was an OGSO, but he didn't deny it. After a "long" two or three seconds, the attacker got a free chance to shoot at goal (from a spot closer than the penalty mark) and missed.
I'm still convinced I took the right decision, but I'm taking on board everything that has been said here. A debate like this is very useful, helping me to reflect on my own actions on the field. Even after 28 years, I'm still learning.
I'm still convinced I took the right decision, but I'm taking on board everything that has been said here. A debate like this is very useful, helping me to reflect on my own actions on the field. Even after 28 years, I'm still learning.
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
therefor we are arguing/debating for no reason the only problem with playin the above advantage is ......your otherwise gonna be awarding a penalty and the fouling player is gonna be sent off for DOGSO .....! so ..........your actually giving an advantage to the side who have committed the foul ? still lose a goal but keep a player .
I'm getting off this one now ....had enough , aired my views and you can all argue it out
GOOD LUCK
I literally have no idea what you just said...
Red cards are 100% irrelevant in advantage
RefereeingBooks
Active Member
Of Course they are !!I literally have no idea what you just said...
Red cards are 100% irrelevant in advantage
Let me clarify .......if in the situation I think we are describing playing an advantage that is..... one on one with the keeper after being fouled by a defender ? If you give the penalty and don't play advantage .....the defender who committed the foul will be sent off for DOGSO and its likely a goal will be scored from the resulting penalty .
Playing the advantage whether a goal is scored or not is not advantageous to the attacking team because you then cannot send off the defender for DOGSO if the player has an OGSO
Hence turning an advantage into a disadvantage ..
Glad I cleared that up
Its all very clear in my mind .....don't see what the problem is ??
So lets all just blow for the penalty deal with the sanctions and get on with the game
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
Aren't you trying to argue that a red card then should be a major factor in determining whether to apply advantage?
Unfortunately Yes .....the Laws of the game dictate that DOGSO must result in a red card ?
We as referees in the situation described must consider whether playing an advantage in these cases actually gives an advantage to the attacking side
I personally don't think it does ?
Maybe a minor flaw in the LOTG that needs addressing ?
We as referees in the situation described must consider whether playing an advantage in these cases actually gives an advantage to the attacking side
I personally don't think it does ?
Maybe a minor flaw in the LOTG that needs addressing ?
CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
If a goal is scored, you absolutely cannot go back to the penalty!
There's no greater advantage than a goal. Playing a man up isn't an advantage, in the laws sense of things. It's very rare I actually see a team make real benefit from this - half the time the team losing a player lifts to cover the gap. Often the team who lost a player has an advantage!
There's no greater advantage than a goal. Playing a man up isn't an advantage, in the laws sense of things. It's very rare I actually see a team make real benefit from this - half the time the team losing a player lifts to cover the gap. Often the team who lost a player has an advantage!
SM
The avuncular one
But having a penalty and being a man up is a much bigger advantage than nothing happening if the expected goal does not appear.
It looks like I am arguing against your point @CapnBloodbeard - I'm not really, I see and agree with what your saying, it's just not black and white.
It looks like I am arguing against your point @CapnBloodbeard - I'm not really, I see and agree with what your saying, it's just not black and white.
Didn't say that !...... and never would ...!.
The whole debate is over the question .....Is there any real " advantage " to be gained by the attacking team after a foul in the penalty area ?
SM please be very careful you don't get splinters in your A*se .....
The whole debate is over the question .....Is there any real " advantage " to be gained by the attacking team after a foul in the penalty area ?
SM please be very careful you don't get splinters in your A*se .....
Last edited by a moderator:
Mooseybaby
Retired big bad baldy in all black!
Have to admit there was an occasion in the past where I allowed play to continue after stonewall spot kick foul. Attacker gets taken out by defender, ball rolls perfectly for attacker's team mate who had an open goal and stuffed it wide. Gave the goal kick, somewhat surprisingly, not a single complaint about not giving the penalty, even from the player fouled, possibly because they were all too stunned that their team mate had missed a simple chance. Did I do the right thing? We will never know, but fortunately not had another incident similar since...
Posted this in another forum earlier this year, an interesting incident involving "advantage"...
Watching one of my son's u12s games earlier this season, a young referee aged around 16 took charge of the game and the home "assistant" was an FA appointed referee's mentor. During the first half, away team defender hits a hopeful ball forward, home defender and away attacker chase the ball. Home keeper races out his area and palms the ball away, assistant's (mentor) flag goes up immediately, but play continues. A brief game of pinball results in the attacker gaining possession and sticking the ball in the back of the net. The time between the keeper handling and the ball finding the back of the net was only a few seconds, none of the players stopped for the flag and there was definitely no whistle or advantage signalled. The referee goes to award the goal, but notices the assistants flag. Assistant shouts over that he flagged for the keeper's handball and not offside. The referee then pulled play back for an attacking free kick. Away manager and several players question why he didn't allow the advantage and give the goal as he hadn't whistled. His response was "the linesman gave the decision".
Did the referee's age and lack of experience count against him in his decision to pull the play back and not over-rule the original flag? Did he even realise it was his right to over-rule if he felt necessary? Maybe the mentor could also have helped him a bit more by realising the advantage and lowered his flag when the ball went in and advised the referee accordingly?
Posted this in another forum earlier this year, an interesting incident involving "advantage"...
Watching one of my son's u12s games earlier this season, a young referee aged around 16 took charge of the game and the home "assistant" was an FA appointed referee's mentor. During the first half, away team defender hits a hopeful ball forward, home defender and away attacker chase the ball. Home keeper races out his area and palms the ball away, assistant's (mentor) flag goes up immediately, but play continues. A brief game of pinball results in the attacker gaining possession and sticking the ball in the back of the net. The time between the keeper handling and the ball finding the back of the net was only a few seconds, none of the players stopped for the flag and there was definitely no whistle or advantage signalled. The referee goes to award the goal, but notices the assistants flag. Assistant shouts over that he flagged for the keeper's handball and not offside. The referee then pulled play back for an attacking free kick. Away manager and several players question why he didn't allow the advantage and give the goal as he hadn't whistled. His response was "the linesman gave the decision".
Did the referee's age and lack of experience count against him in his decision to pull the play back and not over-rule the original flag? Did he even realise it was his right to over-rule if he felt necessary? Maybe the mentor could also have helped him a bit more by realising the advantage and lowered his flag when the ball went in and advised the referee accordingly?