The Ref Stop

A U18 girls' player kicked me!

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I will note that I've been playing football competitively down here in Cornwall for 12 years and for Navy sides for the last 7 and I've not once seen or heard of any harm come to a referee. A few have had mouthfuls and had cards hit out of their hands, but I've never seen one pushed, hit or anything like that, I've not even heard of that happening. It may have done, but I've not heard of it personally. I'm a big talker on the Cornwall Football Forum and have been since I started playing. We don't tend to get that sort of behaviour down in Cornwall.
 
The Ref Stop
davidbartlam said:
I've broken my "I won't post anymore" promise... I thought I'd reply to your question.

The last game I officiated, I sent off two players...

One for striking my hand as I went to issue a caution. As I sent this guy off (and got a massive amount of abuse may I add), I then had his team mate come behind me and say "You c***." He then walks up to my face and continues, "c***, c****, c***!! You gonna send me off now ref? C***, c***" and so he continued,.. 2nd red card.

I'd been struck and verbally abused. I didn't abandon the game. Two morons who decided to act like petulant idiots. I dealt with the situation and continued the game, albeit, a 11 v 9 game...

Although subjected to that, I wasn't out of my comfort zone and it wasn't an uncontrollable situation. I managed it just fine.
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And when they do it to a 16 year old refereeing his first Open Age game in late February, how will he feel? Will he be out of his comfort zone? Will he come back to referee again? Once struck, you should have abandoned and reported the second incident as misconduct after the game has finished. It's not for your sake that I and others recommend this course of action, it's for the 16 year old following you next week or the less confident referee who arrives the week after.
 
I get what you are saying, of course I'm not naive enough not to. But we already have a massive fixture problem in Cornwall as it is, if refs down here started abandoning games left, right and centre, we would be in a whole world of pain. We are struggling now with fulfilling fixture by the end of the season just due to weather alone.

FA "Why did you feel the need to abandon the game, you only got tapped on the hand"
Me "Because little Timmy might be reffing next week and encounter the same problem, I'm protecting him"

They'd laugh at me!!

This is obviously a matter that has opinions divided, as is usually the case but from my point of view, referees don't get assaulted down here so I can't really speak about what it's like. I've had a fair share of grief dished out to me, but I have broad enough shoulders and enough about me to get on with it. I agree that a youngster the week after might have to deal with it... Thankfully we have a good Referee Appointments Officer who is clever with where he puts the young lads. He certainly wouldn't put them in a situation where they could feel intimidated.
 
davidbartlam said:
I've broken my "I won't post anymore" promise... I thought I'd reply to your question.

The last game I officiated, I sent off two players...

One for striking my hand as I went to issue a caution. As I sent this guy off (and got a massive amount of abuse may I add), I then had his team mate come behind me and say "You c***." He then walks up to my face and continues, "c***, c****, c***!! You gonna send me off now ref? C***, c***" and so he continued,.. 2nd red card.

I'd been struck and verbally abused. I didn't abandon the game. Two morons who decided to act like petulant idiots. I dealt with the situation and continued the game, albeit, a 11 v 9 game...

Although subjected to that, I wasn't out of my comfort zone and it wasn't an uncontrollable situation. I managed it just fine.
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You've have acted exactly as I think I would.I was simply making the point that not "ruining" the game/day shouldn't even be a consideration in situations like these.
 
deusex said:
You've have acted exactly as I think I would.I was simply making the point that not "ruining" the game/day shouldn't even be a consideration in situations like these.
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I completely agree. If I feel things have gone too far or I'm brought out of my comfort zone enough to make me even consider abandoning a game, I wouldn't hesitate to. :)
 
deusex said:
First result when googling: "cornwall referee assaulted"

http://www.westbriton.co.uk/Teenage...otball-match/story-21094151-detail/story.html

Your profile says you're from Redruth.
The headline of this 2104 article is :
Teenage referee attacked at Redruth football match

FIRST google result - You couldn't make this s**t up!!!
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Now I look a bit stupid... I remember this being spoken about (the game), I never knew a referee was assaulted in the process...in that case, I know of one occasion now.

I've heard of brawls, player assaults etc which you get once/twice a season, but very rarely referee assaults. I'm starting to question myself now lol. Damn you google!!!
 
deusex said:
Allowing that push to go unchecked will make the other 21 think this type of thing is okay.
They will ALWAYS remember that game that got abandoned and it might make them think twice.
The 1% chance that I am stopping a future ref getting butted is enough for me.
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You haven't allowed it to go unchecked.....you've dismissed the player and sent your report to your CFA for them to deal with.

If they don't choose to immediately suspend the player pending his hearing, so he is free to repeat his behaviour at subsequent matches.....in fact, even if you abandon there is no guarantee that he won't be doing the same again next week!

It's not about being big or hard.....it's about keeping a sense of perspective and remembering what you are there for.
You're there to facilitate a game of football within the confines of the LOTG.....you're not there to become a soothsayer gazing into a crystal ball deciding that despite having your fingers flicked by some nasty man trying to knock the cards out of your hand, you'd better abandon the game just in case next week he decides to decapitate a 16 yr old referee doing his first ever game.
Nor are you there to try and manipulate the system to increase punishment for someone.

If you're too shook up to continue, then don't. If you're picking your teeth up out of the centre circle, you'll probably want to call it a day.
However, if you're simply not bothered and perfectly ok to continue, then just get on with it!

How likely is that to happen in anything other than the most innocuous of situations? Very rarely I would suggest.....

I've been assaulted twice....abandoned both times.....because I was mentally not in the right frame of mind to continue....physically I was fine.
But I abandoned because I couldn't continue, not because I wanted to ramp up any punishment that might be given.

All I am saying that is no referee should feel under any obligation to abandon just because 'it's the done thing'.....just as no referee should be under any pressure to continue if they feel unable to do so.

Let's be honest about it....abandoning can bring further risks in itself!
 
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Padfoot said:
If you're too shook up to continue, then don't. If you're picking your teeth up out of the centre circle, you'll probably want to call it a day.
However, if you're simply not bothered and perfectly ok to continue, then just get on with it!
!
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You really must stop bringing this black & white common-sense approach into the debate Padders.
You're confusing the chaps. ;) :D
 
Its an an interesting subject.

I think for me we're talking like this happens every week and I'd end up abandoning every game if we took the zero tolerance approach. I've been refereeing 5 years and never been assault thankfully. There has only been a few occasions I've felt intimidated. One one time I avoided anything that could be classed a player trying to touch me aggressively. I gave my third ever red card and it was a weak one for an elbow. As I held the card up he went to snatch it from my hand and he missed.

Outside of those incidents I've refereed hundreds of games where nothing remotely concerning has happened. Which is why should this situation occur I'm going home. I'm still out there to enjoy myself. Some games are more challenging than others and some you dont enjoy at all and wonder why you bother. But at the end of the day we are doing it for some sort of enjoyment. IF someone is physically touching me in an aggressive fashion then its all over in my opinion.

Personally I dont really care about players bans from the FA, never have done. I deal with what is in front of me and wouldnt knock a game on the head to hopefully increase a ban. I would be walking off because it sends a message that its not on and hopefully prevents it happening to next weeks ref. Mainly because I hope last weeks ref has helped me out by doing the same. "Come on ref, last weeks ref let me wear my wedding ring." "Come on ref, last weeks ref let me call him a ****." Is no different to "Come one ref, last weeks ref let me push him in the chest."

But I can still see why people think being hyper vigilant doesnt work!
 
Padfoot said:
You haven't allowed it to go unchecked.....you've dismissed the player and sent your report to your CFA for them to deal with.

If they don't choose to immediately suspend the player pending his hearing, so he is free to repeat his behaviour at subsequent matches.....in fact, even if you abandon there is no guarantee that he won't be doing the same again next week!

It's not about being big or hard.....it's about keeping a sense of perspective and remembering what you are there for.
You're there to facilitate a game of football within the confines of the LOTG.....you're not there to become a soothsayer gazing into a crystal ball deciding that despite having your fingers flicked by some nasty man trying to knock the cards out of your hand, you'd better abandon the game just in case next week he decides to decapitate a 16 yr old referee doing his first ever game.
Nor are you there to try and manipulate the system to increase punishment for someone.

If you're too shook up to continue, then don't. If you're picking your teeth up out of the centre circle, you'll probably want to call it a day.
However, if you're simply not bothered and perfectly ok to continue, then just get on with it!

How likely is that to happen in anything other than the most innocuous of situations? Very rarely I would suggest.....

I've been assaulted twice....abandoned both times.....because I was mentally not in the right frame of mind to continue....physically I was fine.
But I abandoned because I couldn't continue, not because I wanted to ramp up any punishment that might be given.

All I am saying that is no referee should feel under any obligation to abandon just because 'it's the done thing'.....just as no referee should be under any pressure to continue if they feel unable to do so.

Let's be honest about it....abandoning can bring further risks in itself!
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We're just repeating ourselves now. We'll clearly never be close on this.
You think I owe these players a football game after acts of aggression toward me, I don't.
You think a game of football being cancelled will provoke suicide from the remaining players.
They'll be okay, and I bet NOONE touches the ref next week!
Btw, I've chosen to abandon once in 300 matches after being verbally threatened with violence, noone touched me. I was fine. I just don't accept being threatened as part of my job. You probably do.
County backed me all the way.
An EXTRAORDINARY incident requires an EXTRAORDINARY responce.
A red card is a once in every 5-10 game occurance and isn't enough.
I concede a hand slap or little kick MIGHT not need an abandonment.
But if someone throws a punch or forcefully pushes you you should be abandoning every. single. time. no matter how great you feel.
To not do so i letting down 10,000 other refs and the game itself (which is in a **** state at grass roots)
 
deusex said:
We're just repeating ourselves now. We'll clearly never be close on this.
You think I owe these players a football game after acts of aggression toward me, I don't.
You think a game of football being cancelled will provoke suicide from the remaining players.
They'll be okay, and I bet NOONE touches the ref next week!
Btw, I've chosen to abandon once in 300 matches after being verbally threatened with violence, noone touched me. I was fine. I just don't accept being threatened as part of my job. You probably do.
County backed me all the way.
An EXTRAORDINARY incident requires an EXTRAORDINARY responce.
A red card is a once in every 5-10 game occurance and isn't enough.
I concede a hand slap or little kick MIGHT not need an abandonment.
But if someone throws a punch or forcefully pushes you you should be abandoning every. single. time. no matter how great you feel.
To not do so i letting down 10,000 other refs and the game itself (which is in a **** state at grass roots)
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Just hope that you're consistent and abandon after any participant is assaulted?

That means next time you walk a player for throwing a punch at an opponent....you abandon....unless you are suggesting that somehow you are more important than the players?

Pretty certain they don't turn up to get punched or threatened either.
 
Padfoot said:
Just hope that you're consistent and abandon after any participant is assaulted?

That means next time you walk a player for throwing a punch at an opponent....you abandon....unless you are suggesting that somehow you are more important than the players?

Pretty certain they don't turn up to get punched or threatened either.
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NONONONONONONONONONONO!!!!!!!!!
YOU ARE HOLIER THAN THE POPE!!!!
Do you actually know why assaulting a police officer is considered more serious than assaulting a person in the street?
I genuinely wonder if you do.
 
deusex said:
NONONONONONONONONONONO!!!!!!!!!
YOU ARE HOLIER THAN THE POPE!!!!
Do you actually know why assaulting a police officer is considered more serious than assaulting a person in the street?
I genuinely wonder if you do.
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Totally irrelevant.

Your argument is that you didn't turn up to the match to be assaulted, so to make it absolutely clear that that conduct is unacceptable you will abandon the game regardless of the severity of the assault or whether you could continue or not.

I am just pointing out that it is highly likely that the player who gets assaulted didn't turn up for that reason, and so by your standards, the match should be abandoned to show how equally unacceptable that conduct is?
 
Padfoot said:
Totally irrelevant.

Your argument is that you didn't turn up to the match to be assaulted, so to make it absolutely clear that that conduct is unacceptable you will abandon the game regardless of the severity of the assault or whether you could continue or not.

I am just pointing out that it is highly likely that the player who gets assaulted didn't turn up for that reason, and so by your standards, the match should be abandoned to show how equally unacceptable that conduct is?
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Well the answer to my original question was "no" then clearly.

A referee is not "more important" than the players. However a referee (unlike a player) IS:

a) vulnerable
b) an authority figure (this is enough to p*ss some people off)
c) is the person who has just taken £25 out of a player's pocket (and he is standing YARDS AWAY)

THEREFORE, to protect the referee, harsher punishments exist for referee assault as opposed to player assault. Were this not the case any player sent off might as well punch the ref as well (Why not eh?).

There is a reason almost EVERY sport in the world will dish out a lifetime ban for referee assault.
But they are wrong and you are right.
I feel like I'm arguing with a child or girlfriend who cannot understand logic.
I wonder if you are just playing devil's advocate. If so you play well.
 
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Padfoot said:
Just hope that you're consistent and abandon after any participant is assaulted?

That means next time you walk a player for throwing a punch at an opponent....you abandon....unless you are suggesting that somehow you are more important than the players?

Pretty certain they don't turn up to get punched or threatened either.
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I've mentioned this already but if I was playing on a Sunday and someone blasted me in the guts I'd be pretty much walking off and not carrying on. Whether or not the 21 other players and ref do or do not want to carry on wouldnt bother me. If I was refereeing on a Sunday and someone blasted me in the guts I'd be walking off as well, regardless of whether the 21 players wanted to carry on or not. For me being assaulted and abandoning isnt about my duty as a ref but my own self respect. I wouldnt be doing so to increase a players punishment, I wouldnt be thinking about those poor souls that cant carry on their kick about, its a purely a selfish decision I guess.
 
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