A&H

A head scratcher...

Steve C

Steve C

The Unfit one!
This was on my mind last night and I couldnt decide what I'd do:

Cup Final, any age from U15s to U21s, 0-0 with 30 seconds to go, we'll call it red vs blue, reds burst through and red striker is 1v1 with the blues keeper, he knocks it past with a few yards between them and the keeper at first outstretches the hand but realises he's not getting there so moves out of the strikers way, but the striker, visibly to you, moves towards the keeper and hurdles with one leg but ensures he leaves is trailing leg to make sure theres enough contact to ask for a pen. If the penalty is given, it has to be a red for DOGSO and reds are out of subs so an outfield will go in goal, and the kick will be the last of the game, if not then the goal kick, IDFK or whatever you give will be.

What do you guys think, personally I'd not give it and book the striker for simulation since he's purposefully tried to unsportingly win a penalty but that could well be wrong. Thats just my opinion, what would you all do?
 
The Referee Store
Exact same thing you just said as the keeper is gonna be hard done by if the pen was given
 
It is simulation, caution, idfk.

Also be prepared for a reaction from the defending team.

This is the worst kind of cheating on a football pitch for me - a penalty and a player sent off? It's not gamesmanship (which covers a lot of the borderline stuff that straddles the line between gaining some kind of advantabe and a foul) but plain, old fashioned, unsporting cheating.
 
ref craig said:
They should make simulation a red card offence
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I agree to a certain extent, id say yes to a red IF the thats the sanction given if the foul was given, so in my scenario yes a red as if it was a foul, it would be a red for the GK, if itd had been a yellow then should be a yellow, would make people think more than twice about it IMO, especially for what could be a red if the dive is missed by officials
 
So, as you described, the striker not only changed direction to initiate contact but also dragged his leg as well.

Contact was the fault of the striker, not the keeper. There's absolutely no question about this whatsoever; this is textbook diving. Even without the change of direction, the leg drag is a dive.

It's a booking + IFK. That's the only answer.


ref craig said:
They should make simulation a red card offence
Click to expand...

Referees already back away from it way too much. It'll never be given if it's a red
 
The problem here is 'selling' the decision in a way that keeps your match control. To a player, there ahs been contact which means there has a been a foul, a penalty, a red card. They don't quite understand .

My one (and only, ever) booking for simulation happened this season - and there was contact between the goalkeeper and the player. Player through, takes it around the keeper and the keeper catches his foot with his hand. The striker doesn't lose balance, continues wide for 5 yards, takes a bad touch and falls to the floor. Yes, there contact, but it wasn't enough for the foul, it didn't throw him off balance, he only went down once the ball was out of his control. Clear simulation, IDFK, yellow card.
 
I don't fully buy the 'match control' argument here. Even if you know there was no contact you could still have the same problem - and you could have the same problems 'selling' the decision if you award a penalty when every defender knows he dragged the foot.

Just make the right decision and let the rest sort itself out. Too many referees are scared of booking players for clear dives.

And even no decision will result in problems. So no matter which way you go you could well run into trouble.

I've had a few bookings for simulation. One was a second caution - defender reached out to grab the shoulder, but the moment there was a touch (and I was close), he dropped. Off he goes. AR says to him when arguing 'I know it was harsh'.

Never understood that point - it was a dive. If he's stupid enough to dive when on a card, how is it my problem?

Another game, booked a player for diving then later awarded 2 penalties in his favour. Had a chuckle at that situation, but the penalties....well, no possible way were they dives.
 
The Bstard said:
The problem here is 'selling' the decision in a way that keeps your match control. To a player, there ahs been contact which means there has a been a foul, a penalty, a red card. They don't quite understand .
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I agree.

At parks level we have to go with expectations of the spectators and players. Only until conference level really for me where there are good videos that will support our decision that it was an act of simulation is it worth it imo. Until then unless it's clear simulation and expected we will be flogging a dead horse.
 
Lol, give me a break. Go read a book if you want an easy afternoon. If you're refereeing you need to have the balls to make the tough, but correct call.

So what do you propose? No decision? Or penalty?
 
Gotta agree with the captain here, don't be last weeks ref. Have the balls to give what you know is the right decision without fear of not being popular. Only doing what spectators and players expect? Home teams must LOVE you if that's the criteria for your decisions. :confused:
 
Well we've got to do what we've got to do.

If I'm being assessed my assessor will have the same view as the crowd, I'd rather keep high marks for AOL and MC (and clubs) than risk everything on one decision which isn't clear to be at the same ground and level year after year.
 
Jacko said:
Well we've got to do what we've got to do.

If I'm being assessed my assessor will have the same view as the crowd, I'd rather keep high marks for AOL and MC (and clubs) than risk everything on one decision which isn't clear to be at the same ground and level year after year.
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And 'what you've got to do' is apply the LOTG. Otherwise why are you wearing that badge on your chest? So are you ACTUALLY saying that you'd award a penalty when you know it's a dive solely because you think you'll cop less dissent?

And that bit about the assessor is utter ********. The assessor will ask you what you saw and if you saw something that he couldn't have he'll take your word for it. You'd get marked down for missing a dive.
 
Jacko said:
Well we've got to do what we've got to do.

If I'm being assessed my assessor will have the same view as the crowd, I'd rather keep high marks for AOL and MC (and clubs) than risk everything on one decision which isn't clear to be at the same ground and level year after year.
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Your assessor will also know the LOTG mate... (Hopefully)

The crowd? Not so much. And when they do know the LOTG they will still be looking through the Rose tinted glasses of bias. :)
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
And 'what you've got to do' is apply the LOTG. Otherwise why are you wearing that badge on your chest? So are you ACTUALLY saying that you'd award a penalty when you know it's a dive solely because you think you'll cop less dissent?

And that bit about the assessor is utter ********. The assessor will ask you what you saw and if you saw something that he couldn't have he'll take your word for it. You'd get marked down for missing a dive.
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I wouldn't get marked down for anything. In the opinion of the referee.
 
Absolute rubbish mate. Are you speaking from your years of assessment experience?
Yes, the assessor needs to consider ITOOTR. That's why he needs to consider differing views, and discuss incidents with the referee.
But if the assessor has seen something that the referee has missed then it's his JOB to write that up.
If you think the role of the assessor is just to say 'yes, very good, must be right in his opinion', then what on earth do you think they're actually there for? You're not making any sense!!

If you think an player will take a dive that an assessor may spot and you don't then you're having a laugh.

Of course, I'm becoming increasingly concerned that not only are you saying you don't have the conviction nor courage to make the right decision on the pitch - you don't even have the courage to say on the internet what you would do!!!

So what's your answer? No decision or penalty??????
 
When I've gone out with a assessor he is always looking the right decision and they also look at reaction of managers players and coaching staff they also go out to give you good points and development points to help develop your game for the better also even thou i think is stupid, is the club mark system especially say even thou you've got something in law right but it's against there team
 
Jacko said:
Well we've got to do what we've got to do.
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You're joking surely? Theres looking after club marks but think you're missing the point.
If the keepers obviously moved his hand and the attacker jumps into him the players won't be expecting a pen.

edit: no caution for a dive as there was contact.
 
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