The Ref Stop

A few things

K

Kent Ref

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A blue player (youth game) is down injured around the corner flag). White team play the ball over the top and i instinctively give offside. In my mind the player is on the ground, face down and not involved. For some reason i thought "he's not involved in the game so offside it is". Something tells me i was wrong but something told me to discount the non-moving player. Luckily the white team thumped then 6-0. Wrong decision?

Second, players running from distance (5-10 yards) using their shoulder to knock another player off the ball or over. I was always taught that was a foul.

Both managers today "well played, don't worry about it, it's not a foul". I had 4 of these. Why do managers / coaches think this is a legal way to tackle?
 
The Ref Stop
First one - I think that even if the defending player is not active in play, if he is on the FoP, he is still playing the others onside.

Second one, if they have no intention to play the ball, I would give it, especially if the other player has clear control of the ball.
 
Kent Ref said:
A blue player (youth game) is down injured around the corner flag). White team play the ball over the top and i instinctively give offside. In my mind the player is on the ground, face down and not involved. For some reason i thought "he's not involved in the game so offside it is". Something tells me i was wrong but something told me to discount the non-moving player. Luckily the white team thumped then 6-0. Wrong decision?

Second, players running from distance (5-10 yards) using their shoulder to knock another player off the ball or over. I was always taught that was a foul.

Both managers today "well played, don't worry about it, it's not a foul". I had 4 of these. Why do managers / coaches think this is a legal way to tackle?
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Wrong decision re offside - not important whether the defending player is active, just his position.
Running from distance may result in a charge which is careless, reckless or with excessive force (but not essentially so) - a free kick for a challenge which is any of those three, plus a card if reckless or excessive force.
 
ChasTutorObserver said:
Wrong decision re offside - not important whether the defending player is active, just his position.
Running from distance may result in a charge which is careless, reckless or with excessive force (but not essentially so) - a free kick for a challenge which is any of those three, plus a card if reckless or excessive force.
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Thank you both for the replies.
 
Agree with the other guys regarding the offside. Was there an opportunity to stop the play so the player could get treatment and the incident prevented? Have seen this done in the PL when a defender is injured in the area.

I'm with you regarding the fouls. If the ball isn't within playing distance then it's not a challenge for the ball.
 
Kent Ref said:
A blue player (youth game) is down injured around the corner flag). White team play the ball over the top and i instinctively give offside. In my mind the player is on the ground, face down and not involved. For some reason i thought "he's not involved in the game so offside it is". Something tells me i was wrong but something told me to discount the non-moving player. Luckily the white team thumped then 6-0. Wrong decision?

Second, players running from distance (5-10 yards) using their shoulder to knock another player off the ball or over. I was always taught that was a foul.

Both managers today "well played, don't worry about it, it's not a foul". I had 4 of these. Why do managers / coaches think this is a legal way to tackle?
Click to expand...
Offside decision was not correct.
Remember law says closer to the goal line than the second Last opponent.
Perhaps you got confused with a player stepping off and then being considered on goal line? I don't know, either way so long as there were 2 defenders closer to goal line, prone or otherwise no offside offence occurs.
I actually had a similar instance happen when on the line in a northern Premier league game where a defender lay injured playing attackers onside. I think being on the line is easier as I stayed with the prone defender which kept the mind active to who was where.

What you describe is a foul. I think it stems from the school playground that shoulder barging is legal. It isn't.
 
Interesting one this. Injured defender playing everyone onside, goal scored, cheerio Match Control
One to think about. Stopping the game claiming it could be a 'serious injury' is always the safe option; unfortunately. Self preservation trumps many other considerations whilst also getting the game done without major dramas
 
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If the ball is within playing then shoulder charging an opponent is perfectly legal as it's not careless etc, nothing wrong with trying to knock an opponent off the ball you don't have to actual challenge for the ball.
Teams will usually let you know what's an acceptable level of contact, adjust to that.
 
bester said:
If the ball is within playing then shoulder charging an opponent is perfectly legal as it's not careless etc, nothing wrong with trying to knock an opponent off the ball you don't have to actual challenge for the ball.
Teams will usually let you know what's an acceptable level of contact, adjust to that.
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The referee decides what is careless, not the players. . .
 
This is a contact game. The question on a charge (if the ball is within playing distance) is whether it was C/R/D. There can be some force involved. Things I look for on charges include
-was it a battle for position or just taking someone out?
-did the player “wind up” to smash the opponent as opposed to running and using the shoulder from a natural position?
-how are players at this level and in today’s game reacting to contact?

The higher the level, the more contact is reasonable. Of course the R decides what is reasonable, but if both teams are moaning about too much contact or both teams are moaning the calls are tricky-tacky, it‘s a good clue to the R that he may not be reading today’s game very well in terms of what level of contact should be accepted on charges.
 
Kent Ref said:
A blue player (youth game) is down injured around the corner flag). White team play the ball over the top and i instinctively give offside. In my mind the player is on the ground, face down and not involved. For some reason i thought "he's not involved in the game so offside it is". Something tells me i was wrong but something told me to discount the non-moving player. Luckily the white team thumped then 6-0. Wrong decision?

Second, players running from distance (5-10 yards) using their shoulder to knock another player off the ball or over. I was always taught that was a foul.

Both managers today "well played, don't worry about it, it's not a foul". I had 4 of these. Why do managers / coaches think this is a legal way to tackle?
Click to expand...
I had the injured player prone offside thing as an AR with an assessor one time. The injured defender was in front of their own post. Play stayed up the other end and despite, repeated screams, my ref could not hear me for about 3 mins.

Afterwards the assessor steered me towards what would have been a great solution - I could have instructed the GK and injured player to roll him/get him off the field. In grassroots this might be a good solution to avoid a major incident. At higher levels probably not suitable - but probably comms would solve instead.
 
bester said:
If the ball is within playing then shoulder charging an opponent is perfectly legal as it's not careless etc, nothing wrong with trying to knock an opponent off the ball you don't have to actual challenge for the ball.
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Not sure I agree with that.

Sure, contact is permitted so long as it's not careless/reckless/excessive but "knocking an opponent off the ball" per se is a DFK every time for me.

Two players running parallel to each other and leaning in/jostling for that extra inch of space that gives you supremacy in gaining or retaining possession (like James mentioned above) is one thing, but one player using his body weight/shoulder to knock another player off the ball or off his feet is getting penalised for it in my match.

It's football not rugby. :) 👍
 
santa sangria said:
Afterwards the assessor steered me towards what would have been a great solution - I could have instructed the GK and injured player to roll him/get him off the field. In grassroots this might be a good solution to avoid a major incident. At higher levels probably not suitable - but probably comms would solve instead.
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It's never an easy situation and no such thing as a one size fits all answer. Moving a player might be an option but not if he/she is seriously injured.
 
OIREF! said:
It's never an easy situation and no such thing as a one size fits all answer. Moving a player might be an option but not if he/she is seriously injured.
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... and a caution for leaving without the referee's permission . . . and a debate on here about whether the injured player is treated as being on the field of play . . . 😁
 
Kes said:
Not sure I agree with that.

Sure, contact is permitted so long as it's not careless/reckless/excessive but "knocking an opponent off the ball" per se is a DFK every time for me.

Two players running parallel to each other and leaning in/jostling for that extra inch of space that gives you supremacy in gaining or retaining possession (like James mentioned above) is one thing, but one player using his body weight/shoulder to knock another player off the ball or off his feet is getting penalised for it in my match.

It's football not rugby. :) 👍
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I'm sure he more or less meant what you said. But he is not as good as a wordsmith as you are. :)
 
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