5th game in..

[Deleted member 3014]

So guys I ref’d my 5th game today & it went wellish but I’m just gonna highlight a few points & keep them as short as I can, I know I’ve gone on a bit since I started to ref a month or so ago & im sure you have gone over this a thousand times & there might even be threads on these topics but here goes anyway.

Descent not aimed directly at me is really starting to p*ss me off, it knocks my confidence a little & the overall feeling I get is who the f*ck do you think you are talking about my decisions like that, as I said it’s not directly at me but i seem to get one player per game that won’t shut up in the background, the way I feel right here and now which is 10hrs after the game has finished is I wanna lay the fella out, as silly or ridiculous it sounds it’s p*ssing me off thinking about it.
The whole team were moaning from start to finish they were unbearable like a bunch of old women & the CB in particular was on it from the word go, the first time he swore in relation to a decision of mine I warned him I said be very careful with what your saying, second half again he said something again swearing in relation to what I’ve given this time I said the next time you swear in regards to my decision your in the book.
He gave it the whole “your picking on me everyone is swearing” I said they’re not swearing in relation to my decisions you are!
Anyway he kept a lid on it after that but his whole team were a bunch of old women, if I was playing against them I would 100% of been sent off, there was a few comings together between both sides and a few flash points which was no surprise with the moaning and verbal coming from the home side.

So descent or the little bitchy comments are getting me down on the field it dents my confidence & reduces my focus and concentration, if it’s not aimed directly at me to my face it’s tricky to deal with but I think I’ll be getting more serious and nipping it in the bud a lot more from now on, I just wish I had the total game to go with my mouth I wish I was a class ref which would back up all I say on the field to the players, I guess with experience it will come.

After every comment I hear I want to stop the game and have out with every individual, seriously I’m finding it so hard not to either take it personally and feeling down and like a mug being picked on or when I get home i dwell on it I feel anger and wish I could go back to this morning and have a tear up with them, I had banter with refs I was cheeky but these pr*cks that act like spoilt 12yr olds I feel like chinning every single one of them.

Next point is being scared to blow the whistle, two separate sub topics foul throws & fouls, please god above can someone explain to me why I’m not blowing for a foul throw? As a player I couldn’t throw the ball don’t ask me why but I couldn’t in 20yrs of playing football I never threw the ball once odd I know but I just didn’t, now this is the second game where I can see a clear foul throw and I haven’t blown for it, it happened twice today in quick concession & I got hammered for it on the sidelines, why oh why am I not blowing for foul throws when it’s clear infront of me.

Fouls: now I have my own theory on this but for some reason I seem to let a lot go, I don’t seem to be blowing unless it’s clear and blatant, I just seem to let fouls go and just say play on play on, obviously I don’t wanna be blowing every 5 seconds but my theory is I’m stuck in two minds so let it go or it’s just easy not to blow and wave play on, it’s like I’m waiting for someone else to blow like when I played, it’s like I’ve still got my playing head on & think inside to myself “well don’t look at me it’s not my problem” when actually it is my problem I’m the ref.
I made a contious effort to really concentrate in the last 20 today, I sort of zone out sometimes and the game sort of manages itself until a big call comes and then I’m drawn on for a decision so I thought today come on get on it for the last 20, but back to my point I’m finding it a bit tricky actually giving fouls & being consistent, I’m sort of freezing on the spot with the whistle & not blowing unless I really think it’s a foul, sometimes I even see an incident after it’s happened I’m thinkng that was a foul, so yeah bit of an issue with this & tbh it’s the fundamentals of ref’n so I need to address it, maybe I haven’t been as focused and contious enough about working on my issues maybe I’ve been to relaxed and haven’t tried to change game on game.

Hand ball / ball to hand had it a lot today again finding it a bit tricky to differentiate between the two.

Not seeing who it came off last, had it today home team swore blind it’s a corner I couldn’t see who it came off neither did Lino so i gave goal kick safe all round, home team literally still going on about it up until HT, I explained my reasoning captain accepted it but gobshite fella I was talking about and others wouldn’t let it go, tbh I think it was just the team itself because 5 games in they were by far the worst.

So yeah that’s just a few points, my own theory is I need to concentrate more and really work on my weakness it’s like I go out there each week & make the same errors and don’t address what I’m concerned about, I’ll try that next week.

I’m having Sunday off next week but will more than likely be ref’n on sat which is a better standard with neutral lino’s Tbh I’m 50/50 on weather to do it or not, it could totally dent my confidence but I feel inside that if i bottle it then what’s the point in being a ref, if asked to ref the FA Cup final I should be up for it.

Anyway apologies for going on, but this is the only therapy I get on a Sunday evening, the Mrs didn’t ask me once today how the game went I mean Jesus even my own house hold aren’t backing me

 

[RobOda]

Don't take this the wrong way...

But maybe the problems are stemming from your feeling the need to have it out with every player on the field as you take things far too personally? I find it concerning that you're feeling so aggressive over things, that's not the right mentality to have. I wonder if the players are picking up on that, and you're unintentionally or otherwise, feeding into that impression that you're easy to wind up, and so they're hitting your weak spots and you're lashing back out with your body language?

From what you've said, I would be concerned primarily with sorting out your mentality and your head first. Without that, nothing else is really going to matter.

(If you're just venting, never mind I guess. >_>)

 

[Sheffields Finest]

Can someone give mean abrupted version, Im a busy boy!

 

[Deleted member 3014]

Don't take this the wrong way...

But maybe the problems are stemming from your feeling the need to have it out with every player on the field as you take things far too personally? I find it concerning that you're feeling so aggressive over things, that's not the right mentality to have. I wonder if the players are picking up on that, and you're unintentionally or otherwise, feeding into that impression that you're easy to wind up, and so they're hitting your weak spots and you're lashing back out with your body language?

From what you've said, I would be concerned primarily with sorting out your mentality and your head first. Without that, nothing else is really going to matter.

(If you're just venting, never mind I guess. >_>)

Totally get what your saying but everything I’m posting on here is how I’m feeling inwardly not how I conduct myself on the pitch, at the time of hearing moaning and descent in the back of my ear my initial feeling is self doubt and being victimised, I’m the brunt of everyone’s anger and frustration it is only after the game or at certain points during the game where my tolerance levels will drop and I’ll feel like in my mind having it out with someone, my body language is open and I’ll converste with players as and when needed but this whole players bitching in the background is getting me down off field & I’m dwelling on it after the game which turns to anger, because my natural reaction to someone shouting or questioning me is to give it straight back & there lies my problem it’s ok for them but not for us as refs to get vocal and give it back, I’ve got a lot to learn & methods to learn to stop descent and constant verbal in the background unless your saying I need to stop being so sensitive and taking every negative comment to heart?

 

[Deleted member 3014]

Maybe today was a learning curve they were by far the most moaning and horrible team verbally they seemed the type of team who would sell there nan to win a game, I haven’t had a team like that yet so it was an eye opener, and this is coming from a performance by me where I got two foul throws and a corner wrong in 90 mins, so god knows what they would have been like if I got big decisions wrong.

But maybe I need to re evaluate & monitor how I feel with being the centre of everyone’s bitching and moaning because every time I here a comment I feel like a punch bag with a whistle or I want to lay someone out, if the feeling doesn’t go away or I don’t harden myself to it then maybe ref’n isn’t for me!

I’m 34 can still play footy I’m registered with my team I stopped playing to Persue this, I’m not a quitter but if I can’t take criticism on the pitch every time I make a decision then maybe it’s not for me.

I decided to ref purely for one reason I thought I could do a better job than what’s out there and get paid for it..

Well all I can say folkes is I was WRONG!

 

[one]

Can someone give mean abrupted version, Im a busy boy!

He is a new referee five games in. He is having topical 'new ref' challenges.

 

[one]

I’m 34 can still play footy I’m registered with my team I stopped playing to Persue this, I’m not a quitter but if I can’t take criticism on the pitch every time I make a decision then maybe it’s not for me.

"Can't take" is not the same as "can't deal with". In time you will learn how to deal with it. For now learn from your experiences.

Never ever make a decision based on emotions. That's not to say don't show emotion on the field. Emotion is part of your body language but every emotion you show has to be controlled.

Lastly, don't stop self assessing. Its one of your strengths.

 

[JamesL]

How many cautions for dissent today?

Now, go and look up the lotg definition of dissent.

Then, how many cautions could/should there have been?

Dont want to give the game away to much but dissent does not have to be directly aimed at you. Based on what you've written it sounds like a lot of dissent had gone unpunished, something you'll learn to manage better with more experience. You'll be surprised after 1 or 2 cautions how much it settles and if it doesnt then they've nobody else to blame at losing 1 2 or 3 players for the remainder of the game and beyond.

 

[Deleted member 3014]

How many cautions for dissent today?

Now, go and look up the lotg definition of dissent.

Then, how many cautions could/should there have been?

Dont want to give the game away to much but dissent does not have to be directly aimed at you. Based on what you've written it sounds like a lot of dissent had gone unpunished, something you'll learn to manage better with more experience. You'll be surprised after 1 or 2 cautions how much it settles and if it doesnt then they've nobody else to blame at losing 1 2 or 3 players for the remainder of the game and beyond.

Cheers James yes I’ll clamp down on it early from now on, I warned the player (I said be very careful with what your saying) second half again same player this time I warned him anymore and I’m booking you, I find it’s always one or two on the pitch, tbh Its just been a shock to the system how you get players that like to spend the game in dialogue with the ref, I as a player didn’t pay much attention to the ref & certainly didn’t aim criticism during play, I think it’s just another thing I’m gonna have to learn from and deal with, maybe I’m being to sensitive but the thing the whole pitch on a Sunday don’t realise is it’s my 5th game, I just wish it was my 105th game.

I actually had an assessor / ex ref there Aswell he was a fantastic fella he actually said to me you controlled the game from start to finish you controlled a game that had plenty of niggle better than some refs that have been doing it for 2yrs.

My positioning needs work and little things he picked up on but he said to be able to manage the game is the most important thing the little things you can work on as you go along.

The one fella that gave me grief actually came straight to me after game and shook my hand & said well ref’d, maybe I’m being to sensative and need to man up a bit Also I need to be clear in my own mind of what I’m prepared to listen to and not listen to.

But yes I’ll strongly consider using cards early on next week set a president from the off, I wish I so wish it was like rugby where you couldn’t say a word to the ref it would be a hell of a lot easier to concentrate on the game infront of you rather than fully grown men moaning like children.

 

[Deleted member 3014]

My biggest issue Aswell folkes is my knowledge on laws I’ve got to hold my hands up there is so much I don’t know & when a scenario arises soon I’m gonna come unstuck.

It’s hard to bollock a player when you don’t know the terminology for what they’ve done wrong.

I just find it difficult to read page after page it sort of becomes a blur after a while, I almost get something during a game & then google at home what the correct law is.

I need to buck my ideas up with lotg

 

[GraemeS]

Totally get what your saying but everything I’m posting on here is how I’m feeling inwardly not how I conduct myself on the pitch, at the time of hearing moaning and descent in the back of my ear my initial feeling is self doubt and being victimised, I’m the brunt of everyone’s anger and frustration it is only after the game or at certain points during the game where my tolerance levels will drop and I’ll feel like in my mind having it out with someone, my body language is open and I’ll converste with players as and when needed but this whole players bitching in the background is getting me down off field & I’m dwelling on it after the game which turns to anger, because my natural reaction to someone shouting or questioning me is to give it straight back & there lies my problem it’s ok for them but not for us as refs to get vocal and give it back, I’ve got a lot to learn & methods to learn to stop descent and constant verbal in the background unless your saying I need to stop being so sensitive and taking every negative comment to heart?

You're perfectly welcome to "give it straight back" as a referee - the problem is, there's one of you and 22 of them. If you try and converse with them on their level (by which I mean, have a conversation/discussion), you're going to get overwhelmed. That's why you have tools such as the whistle and cards - and you've got to try and use them, or you will get overwhelmed. The advice to rise above it is only partly because it looks neater as a referee, it's also partly because it stops you getting swamped in discussion.

I like to think I'm quite an open and communicative referee as well - but for me, that means answering a question and moving on. I'm happy to answer a question, but I'm not really interested in whether they're happy to accept my answer or not. That kind of discussion is for half-time and full-time only, if a player tries to engage me and slow the game down mid half, I'm giving them a warning and then reaching for a card.

 

[Deleted member 3014]

You're perfectly welcome to "give it straight back" as a referee - the problem is, there's one of you and 22 of them. If you try and converse with them on their level (by which I mean, have a conversation/discussion), you're going to get overwhelmed. That's why you have tools such as the whistle and cards - and you've got to try and use them, or you will get overwhelmed. The advice to rise above it is only partly because it looks neater as a referee, it's also partly because it stops you getting swamped in discussion.

I like to think I'm quite an open and communicative referee as well - but for me, that means answering a question and moving on. I'm happy to answer a question, but I'm not really interested in whether they're happy to accept my answer or not. That kind of discussion is for half-time and full-time only, if a player tries to engage me and slow the game down mid half, I'm giving them a warning and then reaching for a card.

I wish your brain was in my head Sunday just gone

So short sharp answer and move on, why do I feel the need to explain everytime I’m questioned it must be to prove I’m right problem is I’m then not concentrating on what’s infront of me.

It really is a balancing act & I need to get to grips with it.

I will be reading descent tonight in the lotg book that’s for sure.

 

[GraemeS]

I wish your brain was in my head Sunday just gone

So short sharp answer and move on, why do I feel the need to explain everytime I’m questioned it must be to prove I’m right problem is I’m then not concentrating on what’s infront of me.

It really is a balancing act & I need to get to grips with it.

I will be reading descent tonight in the lotg book that’s for sure.

Do brush up on what the laws say - but also be aware that dissent is kind of whatever you want it to be. It can be openly questioning your decision, but it can also be a consistent attempt to undermine you without saying any one thing that steps over the line.

A yellow is easy to give for a loud outburst, but harder to sell for consistent, quiet low-level dissent....unless you set them up for it with a dressing-down in front of their captain (or with the captain if the comments are being spread around). Tell them "I'm not interested in your opinions regarding my decisions, keep it to yourself or I'm going to have to take action" and then when they pipe up again, no one can complain they weren't warned.

 

[Deleted member 3014]

Dissent is there an explanation of what is / isn’t dissent within lotg, or is it just under law 12 fouls & misconduct?

Seems to be nothing in law 12 about verbal towards referee? And the varying degrees of dissent.

 

[RobOda]

In the glossary:

Dissent: Public disagreement (verbal and/or physical) with a match official's decision; punishable by a caution (yellow card).

 

[Deleted member 3014]

In the glossary:

Dissent: Public disagreement (verbal and/or physical) with a match official's decision; punishable by a caution (yellow card).

Cheers the old chestnut they use on me is “but I’m not saying it to you ref”
So I’m going to go down the lines of your questioning my decisions directly or in directly, weather it’s directly or indirectly at me it’s dissent.

My little script in my head is

... U have two options you can either keep your opinions to yourself and keep your mouth shut or you can carry on and go into the book & anymore after that you can leave the field early it’s entirely upto you..

That’s the speech I was going to start giving with the offender and captain together.

I’ve given little or no lectures to players regarding dissent it’s about time I learned the terminology & come to a conclusion regarding my tolerance.

I’ll also prep both captains b4 kick off on what I expect from both teams dissent wise, I do remember back in the day refs used to prep the whole team on what he expects prior to kick off, haven’t seen that for a long time is that out of fashion now?

 

[GraemeS]

Cheers the old chestnut they use on me is “but I’m not saying it to you ref”
So I’m going to go down the lines of your questioning my decisions directly or in directly, weather it’s directly or indirectly at me it’s dissent.

My little script in my head is

... U have two options you can either keep your opinions to yourself and keep your mouth shut or you can carry on and go into the book & anymore after that you can leave the field early it’s entirely upto you..

That’s the speech I was going to start giving with the offender and captain together.

I’ve given little or no lectures to players regarding dissent it’s about time I learned the terminology & come to a conclusion regarding my tolerance.

I’ll also prep both captains b4 kick off on what I expect from both teams dissent wise, I do remember back in the day refs used to prep the whole team on what he expects prior to kick off, haven’t seen that for a long time is that out of fashion now?

I used to do that, and vehemently defended it on this forum - and I'd still consider doing it at grassroots level as part of the kit check. But I've found that when you go up the ladder, the opportunity to gather a team together starts to disappear. It becomes standard for your assistants to do a kit check as you wait in the tunnel rather than you doing it on the FOP, it's not really acceptable to go into their dressing rooms, and teams at that level will have an organised warm-up pattern that they won't like being interrupted.

I still talk to the captains at the coin toss however. Keep it very short, something along the lines of "OK guys, what I need from you is to make sure that your players are listening to my instructions. If I tell them that a particular tackle is borderline, or they're pushing their luck with dissent, it's up to you to calm them down before I have to use cards to do it." My theory is that it tells the captains I'm happy to have them help out, but also that I'm not therefore obliged to find them and call them over if they're failing to be proactive.

 

[santa sangria]

M8 I love your posts. And I think they are really useful for others. I can empathise a lot - except maybe I used to get frustrated rather than angry with players - OK, angry too, sometimes.

The verbals: when I played a few years ago, we had a mixed ability team with horrible mouths and bad tackles... we all agreed that our favourite ref was the one that just said "zip it" at the first complaints. He put his fingers across his lips. Next complaint went in the book. Anything else starting to look like a complaint, up came the fingers... as players we knew where we stood. Zero tolerance. 7 years on and the guy is now one of my best friends in reffing. He refs 3 levels higher now and - of course - his attitude is different. With us, his way to make the match work was to say almost nothing and make us get on with the game. At higher levels he explains decisions more. But still - just like advantage - explaining a decision or non-decision is a big set piece for us as refs. 2-3 times a game, an obvious warning, hand gesture for the crowd etc... economical, make a statement.

You get my point I hope: for some refs, talking a lot is the answer, for others silence is... and it varies from level to level. Smiles in hobby leagues, but careful with the smiles if you are doing elite 15 year olds with rabid coaches.

Foul tolerance comes with confidence and practice.
With hand ball think about: deliberate or not, distance. Ball to hand doesn't help me. I must confess I don't think that. Think about the movement of the player, how they are reacting. And scream your decision. Twice. No one needs an explanation or a whinge after that.

Foul throws are difficult because a) so many foul throws on telly, b) so many kids do not taught the art. I got so hacked off two seasons ago that in all my mens' middles I told the captains before the game that I won't go soft on foul throws and to warn the players. (I only tell 3 things, that was one). After that, it's an easy whistle. With hobby leagues and kids, or players lacking in enough coordination, then a warning makes sense -if they are trying and can't actually do it, then I will make an exception, but for serious players.. warn early and whistle. Small caveat here: do pay attention to the detail - watch for the dragging toe

5 games in... you are rockin'
Do some lines! Really, best way to learn. What other job or sport would you do professionally without doing it alongside someone else...

 

[Mintyref]

Ok think I need to add my twopenny worth to this one.
1 Dissent does not have to be aimed directly to you to be dissent.
2. Swearing is either offensive and abusive worthy of a red card, or not. To whom it is directed really matters not one jot.
3. You must manage dissent straightaway. Use the three strike principal, first occasion a word, second a word with the skipper, third a lemon! Do this for each team, not each player!
4. If you consider any swearing to be offensive and or abusive, there is only one option, a cherry. If you think it doesn't meet that criteria, then live with it, don't bring it on here and moan if you've failed to act on it.
5. Don't get bogged down explaining decisions, give it, state it, move away or move on.
6. Have confidence in your decisions, you are correct, even when you're wrong!
7. Don't sweat the small stuff, a throw is only a method of getting the ball back in play.....
8. Handball....it has to be deliberate....the vast majority are not.

 

[Deleted member 3014]

So if

Ok think I need to add my twopenny worth to this one.
1 Dissent does not have to be aimed directly to you to be dissent.
2. Swearing is either offensive and abusive worthy of a red card, or not. To whom it is directed really matters not one jot.
3. You must manage dissent straightaway. Use the three strike principal, first occasion a word, second a word with the skipper, third a lemon! Do this for each team, not each player!
4. If you consider any swearing to be offensive and or abusive, there is only one option, a cherry. If you think it doesn't meet that criteria, then live with it, don't bring it on here and moan if you've failed to act on it.
5. Don't get bogged down explaining decisions, give it, state it, move away or move on.
6. Have confidence in your decisions, you are correct, even when you're wrong!
7. Don't sweat the small stuff, a throw is only a method of getting the ball back in play.....
8. Handball....it has to be deliberate....the vast majority are not.

Good advice Minty, u make it sound so bloody simple

I chucked myself in the deep end and it’s a lot to take on board & then implement, like I said before I’ve been to weak and not put enough thought into Puting things right, it’s taken me 5 games to actually get to the bottom of this dissent issue.

I tell u one thing minty I won’t be complaining next wknd on here that sum1 got to me, I’ll be dealing with it from the off!

My mindset on the course & my mind set in my first game upuntil this Sunday was a bit well it’s a bit of fun I won’t bother reading the handbook I know the basics, I’ll get through games with no real drama it’s only Sunday league, I’ll be the players mate & have a bit of banter........

Well my mindset now is this sh*t is serious, I’m there to ref implement the laws & zone in on my game, I’m not there to be people’s pal & ive got a reputation to build and skills to learn, my decisions won’t improve or my game won’t improve unless I do something about it, I’ve got to chuck the self contious thoughts out the window trying to look the part on the pitch be cool the way I run & conduct myself etc, just gonna chuck all that out & concentrate like I’ve never concentrated before.