A&H

5-4 first report

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4th observation for me on Saturday. Went OK I think. Observer picked me up on having a bent arm when giving IDFK which was a good point as I did it in the mirror after debrief and he was absolutely right and I had no idea. Played an advantage for a goal which was missed by the observer which I thought I'd been loud on and held the signal for a while but that's a lesson for me to be even louder and hold it like Mike Dean 🤣 Also told my dissent tolerance is too high which could well be correct but it was a very tight game and I never felt that I was receiving much dissent. Perhaps one that others may give a sin bin during an observation but not sure I've seen a ref at level 4 give a sin bin for low level stuff? In fact I haven't seen a sin bin given at step 5 to 6 this year on the 10 games I've done. It's all a learning curve.

Good points were dealing with and recognising misconduct (5 yellows), communicating with players, positioning and fitness.

Overall I think it will be 70ish which I'm happy with considering the marks were good from my first 3. One more to go.

Hope anyone else who got observed had a good weekend.
 
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Ben448844 said:
4th observation for me on Saturday. Went OK I think. Observer picked me up on having a bent arm when giving IDFK which was a good point as I did it in the mirror after debrief and he was absolutely right and I had no idea. Played an advantage for a goal which was missed by the observer which I thought I'd been loud on and held the signal for a while but that's a lesson for me to be even louder and hold it like Mike Dean 🤣 Also told my dissent tolerance is too high which could well be correct but it was a very tight game and I never felt that I was receiving much dissent. Perhaps one that others may give a sin bin during an observation but not sure I've seen a ref at level 4 give a sin bin for low level stuff? In fact I haven't seen a sin bin given at step 5 to 6 this year on the 10 games I've done. It's all a learning curve.

Good points were dealing with and recognising misconduct (5 yellows), communicating with players, positioning and fitness.

Overall I think it will be 70ish which I'm happy with considering the marks were good from my first 3. One more to go.

Hope anyone else who got observed had a good weekend.
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I think with the low level stuff you just need to recognise it and be seen to be dealing with it. It's not necessarily that you have to use the sin bin. A well timed cut it out or... Can be just as effective and shows that you aren't just taking it.

I was very interested to learn that on the step 6 league I do, by October there had only been 18 sin bins, of which I had done 3 😂
 
JamesL said:
I think with the low level stuff you just need to recognise it and be seen to be dealing with it. It's not necessarily that you have to use the sin bin. A well timed cut it out or... Can be just as effective and shows that you aren't just taking it.

I was very interested to learn that on the step 6 league I do, by October there had only been 18 sin bins, of which I had done 3 😂
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I think I had to be fair. Considering it was a very competitive clash between two teams trying to avoid relegation I didn't think there was much and I had a public word with one player. But I could've missed things or it could've looked different from the sidelines. Not getting a mark up for the advantage on the goal is annoying but it's just one of those things. I could've held the signal longer.

Most refs I've had have said that there won't be any sin bins before the game. I get it too as at the higher levels with fans and multiple occupants of the TA it can cause more issues than it solves. It's another one of those things which requires the buy in of all involved and we as refs probably don't help ourselves. I use it in Sunday League regularly but use it as a last resort at County/Western League and thats incorrect really. But others don't use it at all and then we get surprise from teams when we do. The whole sin bin process and application probably wants re-empthasising and promoting to ensure compliance by both players and officials continues to try and reduce the problem.
 
Ben448844 said:
I think I had to be fair. Considering it was a very competitive clash between two teams trying to avoid relegation I didn't think there was much and I had a public word with one player. But I could've missed things or it could've looked different from the sidelines. Not getting a mark up for the advantage on the goal is annoying but it's just one of those things. I could've held the signal longer.

Most refs I've had have said that there won't be any sin bins before the game. I get it too as at the higher levels with fans and multiple occupants of the TA it can cause more issues than it solves. It's another one of those things which requires the buy in of all involved and we as refs probably don't help ourselves. I use it in Sunday League regularly but use it as a last resort at County/Western League and thats incorrect really. But others don't use it at all and then we get surprise from teams when we do. The whole sin bin process and application probably wants re-empthasising and promoting to ensure compliance by both players and officials continues to try and reduce the problem.
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People thinking they are buying club marks not using them and then wondering why they aren't top of the club mark merit table.

Unless it's so blatantly obvious then you need to set them up. I've never had a complaint using them because they are either obvious or I have set them up, usually including the skipper. And they usually walk off to their team mates giving them hell for it too. My experience of WL is that the dissent is low because the players are smarter and will probably incur some fine from the club or get sacked off for more reliable players.
 
JamesL said:
People thinking they are buying club marks not using them and then wondering why they aren't top of the club mark merit table.

Unless it's so blatantly obvious then you need to set them up. I've never had a complaint using them because they are either obvious or I have set them up, usually including the skipper. And they usually walk off to their team mates giving them hell for it too. My experience of WL is that the dissent is low because the players are smarter and will probably incur some fine from the club or get sacked off for more reliable players.
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I've no problem using them. Only done 1 Western League game so far. Regularly use them on Sunday League. The threat usually does it I agree, stepped approach is always the approach I go for so people can see it and then the blame is the players, even when there are times I should probably just go straight for a sin bin yellow. But I've met very few refs who use the sin bins. I agree about dissent in paid football, I'd say its the coaches whom get away with more than they probably should at that level.
 
Ben448844 said:
I think I had to be fair. Considering it was a very competitive clash between two teams trying to avoid relegation I didn't think there was much and I had a public word with one player. But I could've missed things or it could've looked different from the sidelines. Not getting a mark up for the advantage on the goal is annoying but it's just one of those things. I could've held the signal longer.

Most refs I've had have said that there won't be any sin bins before the game. I get it too as at the higher levels with fans and multiple occupants of the TA it can cause more issues than it solves. It's another one of those things which requires the buy in of all involved and we as refs probably don't help ourselves. I use it in Sunday League regularly but use it as a last resort at County/Western League and thats incorrect really. But others don't use it at all and then we get surprise from teams when we do. The whole sin bin process and application probably wants re-empthasising and promoting to ensure compliance by both players and officials continues to try and reduce the problem.
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I've said this so many times I feel like a broken record, but at L4 you have to manage the event.

Practically what that means is NO SURPRISES!

My supply league has Captains present at Teamsheets 60 minutes before kick off in competition rules. All I ever say to captains is "We've got sin bins in force today, it's it manageable then I'll manage it, but if it's public or persistent then they'll be having a sit down for 10 minutes"

I've had 2 sin bins in my supply league this season and neither were unexpected for the players in question - @ChasObserverRefDeveloper had a good view of one of them!
 
My first/only 5->4 Observation so far had comment about not using the Sin Bin for an over zealous reaction to a single incident. I rate the Observer highly, but the reports are not an exact science and I wasn't too fussed about the comment. Match Control (influencing behaviour), is probably my biggest strength and I fancy I'm a good overall judge of if/when to use the Sin Bin
Managing dissent is critical in an observed game, but in my case it wouldn't have been what the game expected because it was just an outburst and he responded well to my reprimand. But the overall observation was a fair reflection of the game, so we can't agree on everything

As for Referees who ignore Sin Bins, they're 'missing a trick' and their Match Control and Club Marks will suffer
 
Big Cat said:
My first/only 5->4 Observation so far had comment about not using the Sin Bin for an over zealous reaction to a single incident. I rate the Observer highly, but the reports are not an exact science and I wasn't too fussed about the comment. Match Control (influencing behaviour), is probably my biggest strength and I fancy I'm a good overall judge of if/when to use the Sin Bin
Managing dissent is critical in an observed game, but in my case it wouldn't have been what the game expected because it was just an outburst and he responded well to my reprimand. But the overall observation was a fair reflection of the game, so we can't agree on everything

As for Referees who ignore Sin Bins, they're 'missing a trick' and their Match Control and Club Marks will suffer
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My match control is one of my strong points imo. Just had the report through and it was commented on several times about good match control, firm decisions and confidence and authority etc. I felt I controlled it well but the point about using sin bins is a valid one. I could've done but not sure I would do next time either as it never was that bad. We all see different things.

Surprised you've only had 1 observation so far. Hopefully they'll bang them in soon. Its almost December and I've not had a single postponement out of 31 fixtures this season which is amazing really. Some teams have played over half a season of league games already so I'm glad I've got 4 in. Was told that my last observation will be in January. Earlier if an observer suddenly becomes free before then
 
Ben448844 said:
Its almost December and I've not had a single postponement out of 31 fixtures this season which is amazing really.
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Remarkable so far. I haven't reffed a game in November for 3 seasons before this one and still showing no signs of letting up
 
JamesL said:
Remarkable so far. I haven't reffed a game in November for 3 seasons before this one and still showing no signs of letting up
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It is remarkable that with covid and British weather we've got to almost December without a postponement. Won't be much in the way of midweek football for the rest of the season
 
Ben448844 said:
It is remarkable that with covid and British weather we've got to almost December without a postponement. Won't be much in the way of midweek football for the rest of the season
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Yeh, I've got a few concerns about being behind on observations.... but not overly fussed
a) got Covid now, so isolating this weekend
b) weather can only get worse, with all the uncertainty a few rain drops bring
c) I've got nothing but Step 5 lines throughout December
And that's assuming I stay injury free. When does the 5-4 promo season run to? Also, have you had your LOTG test score back yet? Sure I didn't get any Q's wrong but haven't heard anything about it since
Enjoying it though. Had a game with 392 spectators week before last. Any nervousness just seemed to add to the positive new experience
 
Big Cat said:
Yeh, I've got a few concerns about being behind on observations.... but not overly fussed
a) got Covid now, so isolating this weekend
b) weather can only get worse, with all the uncertainty a few rain drops bring
c) I've got nothing but Step 5 lines throughout December
And that's assuming I stay injury free. When does the 5-4 promo season run to? Also, have you had your LOTG test score back yet? Sure I didn't get any Q's wrong but haven't heard anything about it since
Enjoying it though. Had a game with 392 spectators week before last. Any nervousness just seemed to add to the positive new experience
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You only find out if you fail.
You need to be chatting to your appointees about what games you need..
Dec full of lines is only good for you to get your 10 lines in.
If also be speaking to RDO and observer Co ordinator about what their plan is to get you to the criteria but with a respect to much of that, specifically availability falls on your shoulders.
 
JamesL said:
You only find out if you fail.
You need to be chatting to your appointees about what games you need..
Dec full of lines is only good for you to get your 10 lines in.
If also be speaking to RDO and observer Co ordinator about what their plan is to get you to the criteria but with a respect to much of that, specifically availability falls on your shoulders.
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His observer co-ordinator doesn't care :pirate: ;) :)
 
Big Cat said:
Yeh, I've got a few concerns about being behind on observations.... but not overly fussed
a) got Covid now, so isolating this weekend
b) weather can only get worse, with all the uncertainty a few rain drops bring
c) I've got nothing but Step 5 lines throughout December
And that's assuming I stay injury free. When does the 5-4 promo season run to? Also, have you had your LOTG test score back yet? Sure I didn't get any Q's wrong but haven't heard anything about it since
Enjoying it though. Had a game with 392 spectators week before last. Any nervousness just seemed to add to the positive new experience
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Not sure to be honest. I didn't do the LOTG exam as I had a wisdom tooth out that day. Doing mine later in the season. I've had scores of 74, 75, 77 & 74 on my observations, but I'm no good at exams. See how it goes closer to the time. What were the questions like?
 
JamesL said:
Give the man some obs Russ.
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In all seriousness, I needed to prioritise last year's candidates because of the chance of mid season promotions. That worked, with five of them going up (and two only missing out because of injury related failures of the fitness test). I'm pulling out all the stops to ensure all of this year's wannabes get their full allocation of five observations ... even troublemakers like @Big Cat :rolleyes:
 
Big Cat said:
Yeh, I've got a few concerns about being behind on observations.... but not overly fussed
a) got Covid now, so isolating this weekend
b) weather can only get worse, with all the uncertainty a few rain drops bring
c) I've got nothing but Step 5 lines throughout December
And that's assuming I stay injury free. When does the 5-4 promo season run to? Also, have you had your LOTG test score back yet? Sure I didn't get any Q's wrong but haven't heard anything about it since
Enjoying it though. Had a game with 392 spectators week before last. Any nervousness just seemed to add to the positive new experience
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Take the Step 5 lines now. Those matches tend to be on better pitches, so less likely to be postponed.

If you make the promotion at the end of the season, then this experience will help you when you could be in the middle next year 😬
 
Big Cat said:
but not overly fussed
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Note to self... 'what's all this fuss about?'

Just a bit of a bummer with getting the auld CV19 and all that. Had a nice little game lined up on Sunday, for which my 'people skills' were needed :punch:

Likely I got virus at QPR v Luton on Friday night
I can't even blame @PinnerPaul cos I was in the Luton end, so got the least that I deserved

I take my appointments with a pinch of salt. Such is the shortage of R's etc., there's a lot of movers and shakers, so probably end up with six middles
We can't all afford the time to swan around mastering our flag technique in front of the mirror like 'Panel Select' @Russell Jones 'Big Potatoes'
 
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2 Observations here so far - both without neutrals on nothing games so I'm really hoping I can get my next few with neutrals to help my development.

I'm more worried about lines currently. Only 1 so far this season. Changed supply leagues to give me a better chance.
 
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