The Ref Stop

Lost a couple of marks

santa sangria

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
Assessment tonight. It was 4-0 at halftime, 6-0 at the end but both teams went for it until the final whistle.
I lost a couple of marks. One free kick 40 yards out. I had warned the offender so I told the attacker to wait for the whistle. He wan't happy but wasn't angry. When he took the DFK before the whistle I got him to retake - and totally forgot to caution. It would have caused uproar but I should have.

The other was a coming together in midfield. I didn't see an offence. But two players started verbals. I got close to them to manage them while play continued, but in a few seconds there were maybe 6-7 players around the center circle all getting verbal - nothing cautionable - and I had to stop play, curtailing a promising attack.
I then did something daft. The drop ball at the point where the ball was when I stopped play was a good move. But I also managed that and got the attacker to give it to the defence. And my instructions were audible to the assessor. It seemed like a good idea at the time! But I do know - never manage a dropped ball. I should have really found a reason to give a DFK before the verbals started.

ARs did good. I gave one advantage leading to a goal. Only one YC. Movement was good. Did over 10km. Must learn to turn my body towards the AR when signalling throws. In the far corner I made it hard to see my arms.
Learnt two new things:
- AR2 should signal over the head for a sub at the same time as AR1 - I can't believe I didn't know this!
- Some refs have different whistle blast/shrills/rhythms for e.g. foul, nearly yel, yel, red - again, never knew this - lord - seems obvious now...
 
The Ref Stop
I think you have had a picky assessor. The quickly taken free kick isn't a mandatory caution, and whilst you could caution for it as (I assume) a 7-6 assessment he shouldn't be marking you down for it. Likewise on the dropped ball, you aren't instructing a team to kick it back to the other, you are asking it they want to, and there is nothing wrong with that.

AR2 should not automatically signal for a sub, this is only done if the referee has missed AR1 making the signal or is in a position that he is never going to see AR1 and a signal by AR2 will prevent a problem (after all, when have you EVER seen AR2 signal in a professional game for a substitution?). His comment about varying the whistle tone is correct though.
 
This might be a touch controversial, but I can't help thinking that if you're going to stop the play for "verbals", you perhaps should have found something worth more than a drop ball to restart. Especially when a promising attack is happening, it seems strange to me that nothing even worthy of an IFK was going on, let alone the caution I would expect to come out at that point.

If anyone was adopting an aggressive attitude, book 'em. Even an off the ball push would justify restarting with a FK. If not, perhaps there was a foul of some sort on the attacking player, that would have allowed you to calm the situation down in an otherwise unrelated stoppage. Not all players realise that you're not allowed to give instructions at a drop ball, but if anyone does realise, you gave yourself a contented drop ball to deal with - and after stopping play because tempers are running high, having two players swing at a dropping ball is asking for trouble.
 
Why would you caution for taking the kick before your whistle? It isn't mandatory.
A drop ball in the situation you describe is unusual but sounds correct. If it's verbals and escalating but nobody has put a finger on the other (or it was simultaneous) and nobody has earned a card then drop ball is correct. But yeah, managing the DB is a fair markdown.
As for the subs - no, AR 2 most definitely is not supposed to signal for the sub unless it's being missed by the referee. I hope it wasn't the assessor who told you that??
 
RustyRef said:
I think you have had a picky assessor. The quickly taken free kick isn't a mandatory caution, and whilst you could caution for it as (I assume) a 7-6 assessment he shouldn't be marking you down for it. Likewise on the dropped ball, you aren't instructing a team to kick it back to the other, you are asking it they want to, and there is nothing wrong with that.

AR2 should not automatically signal for a sub, this is only done if the referee has missed AR1 making the signal or is in a position that he is never going to see AR1 and a signal by AR2 will prevent a problem (after all, when have you EVER seen AR2 signal in a professional game for a substitution?). His comment about varying the whistle tone is correct though.
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On the drop, I did instruct too much, so I cop to that.
On the mandatory caution - I am checking if we have a local guideline.
On the AET2 signalling, I am checking on that as well, likewise, I haven't seen that in the UK or internationals
 
GraemeS said:
This might be a touch controversial, but I can't help thinking that if you're going to stop the play for "verbals", you perhaps should have found something worth more than a drop ball to restart. Especially when a promising attack is happening, it seems strange to me that nothing even worthy of an IFK was going on, let alone the caution I would expect to come out at that point.

If anyone was adopting an aggressive attitude, book 'em. Even an off the ball push would justify restarting with a FK. If not, perhaps there was a foul of some sort on the attacking player, that would have allowed you to calm the situation down in an otherwise unrelated stoppage. Not all players realise that you're not allowed to give instructions at a drop ball, but if anyone does realise, you gave yourself a contented drop ball to deal with - and after stopping play because tempers are running high, having two players swing at a dropping ball is asking for trouble.
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There really wasn't anything aggressive enough in the verbals - but there probably would have been if I hadn't stopped play. I should have found a reason to blow earlier. I agree with the assessor on this. I should have either blown earlier, or then had a contested drop. It would have worked better in the game context, and I wouldn't have been managing the drop ;)
 
I'd be marking AR2 up for team work for noticing AR1 signaling and noticing that you hadn't noticed it. I've always thought of it as a bonus but not expected.
 
If I ever need to stop active play due to two players having verbals (or whatever), a caution for one of them (minimum) is coming. This sends a very strong message that you are not being messed around by theatrics.

It isn't mandatory to caution for a DFK being taken early. However, from your description, I would have considered cautioning in this case. It's one thing for a player not to hear your instructions or there being a misunderstand (although that indicates a referee not being careful enough). If the player has clearly heard you to be unhappy about it, and demonstrated this, _and then_ takes the FK anyway, that also falls into the "Stop messing me about" caution category.

Yes, it's very clear in Law now that a referee cannot dictate what happens with a Dropped Ball. You need to be far more subtle ;-)

AR2 should not routinely mirror a substitution signal. This is poor advice. It's helpful if a referee misses the signal from AR1, however.

Different whistle tones to match the situation is good advice. Simple little 'nothing' fouls, little bit of whistle. Big leg breaker challenge, you're using all your lung capacity. And everything inbetween! Another little tip: Your whistle for a restart should never be as long as the whistle you used to give the foul in the first place.
 
I'll just clarify the advice I was given:
- In our top leagues apparently the AET2 should mirror the flag overhead at the time of the substitution. Of course I know about mirroring the flag below the waist to alert of the desire to substitute but mirroring at the time of substitution is a new one on me.
- The whistle advice was about using e.g. peeeep-pe-pe for nearly yellow, harder peep-pep-pep for yellow, peeeep-pepepe-peep for red/serious. Interesting. Again totally new to me. I always thought referees used one blast or double blast until the final whistle...
 
santa sangria said:
The whistle advice was about using e.g. peeeep-pe-pe for nearly yellow, harder peep-pep-pep for yellow, peeeep-pepepe-peep for red/serious. Interesting. Again totally new to me. I always thought referees used one blast or double blast until the final whistle...
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Wow, that's....complicated. I'd worry that I'll spend so much time concentrating on my whistle, I'd forget what I whistled for!

I vary my whistle, but not to any set pattern. A quick peep for a really minor foul is a useful tool for de-escalating a situation where you have no intent of even telling a player off. A big long blast to tell people you're hacked off does a good job of reducing the surprise when you pull the cards out. And of course, there are middle grounds too.

But expecting a referee to signal his intentions to players in Morse code (to a set system that of course, the players will have no clue about) seems incredibly picky to me.
 
santa sangria said:
I'll just clarify the advice I was given:
- In our top leagues apparently the AET2 should mirror the flag overhead at the time of the substitution. Of course I know about mirroring the flag below the waist to alert of the desire to substitute but mirroring at the time of substitution is a new one on me.
- The whistle advice was about using e.g. peeeep-pe-pe for nearly yellow, harder peep-pep-pep for yellow, peeeep-pepepe-peep for red/serious. Interesting. Again totally new to me. I always thought referees used one blast or double blast until the final whistle...
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Whereas I was always taught you can get more than enough variation in your whistle without trying to break into song with your whistle.
This wasn't a markdown, surely? As long as you use the loudness and length of your whistle to indicate more serious offences then that is sufficient.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
This wasn't a markdown, surely? As long as you use the loudness and length of your whistle to indicate more serious offences then that is sufficient.
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No, wasn't a markdown. Just some advice. Interesting. Maybe we need another thread dedicated to whistle tone and rhythm to find out if there are some more bird song whistlers out there...
 
After chewing on this, what I learnt from this assessment is that I should have demonstrated a few things that I regularly do, and just didn't have to do in this game.

- Cutting the grass final warning
- Fast run to get in between two players

(Remember I am nit picking. I asked the assessor to nit pick, too;))
 
Mewcenary said:
If I ever need to stop active play due to two players having verbals (or whatever), a caution for one of them (minimum) is coming. This sends a very strong message that you are not being messed around by theatrics.

... If the player has clearly heard you to be unhappy about it, and demonstrated this, _and then_ takes the FK anyway, that also falls into the "Stop messing me about" caution category.
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One of the big changes I have found, from working with L3s and from being an L4 myself, is the new level of being a proper hard case on the pitch and not taking any sh1t. Seen it a few times and it really works.
 
Monotone Whistle said:
One of the big changes I have found, from working with L3s and from being an L4 myself, is the new level of being a proper hard case on the pitch and not taking any sh1t. Seen it a few times and it really works.
Click to expand...
Up north there's a group who call it "flicking the switch on tw*t mode". It works so well; after doing it for a few weeks and letting word get around, it makes life so much easier.
 
Brian Hamilton said:
Up north there's a group who call it "flicking the switch on tw*t mode". It works so well; after doing it for a few weeks and letting word get around, it makes life so much easier.
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Thing is for Tw*t mode here you do that and then caution for dissent or send off for offinabus clubs really moan
 
So, it turns out that in our top three tiers (in the land of chocolate rainbows) AET2 holds the flag above the head at the time of the sub to mirror AET1. Go figure! I haven't found out why, or how this started, but it is done. Assessors in the top three tiers look for that plus the position of the flag during note taking. So there are a few more things I am yet to learn!
 
Why in the top 3 tiers but not the televised leagues? Especially as at the top 3 tiers you're more likely to have buzzer flags and radio comms making this sort of thing less necessary!
But I'm intrigued - where is the FA regulated flag position while note taking?
 
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