What does immediately after mean?

I saw this video online and it raised a question which I’m sure has been discussed before.

Should this goal have stood? Is there any guidance on what handball immediately before scoring is?

I do find it interesting that when deciding ‘obviousness’ we have now been given 5 factors to consider but with ‘immediateness’ we are left to our own devices!

For what it’s worth, I’d see the OP as immediate. But the video is great as it forces a choice around immediacy as there’s no way that should be called a penalisable handball otherwise

This is the only 'official' guidance we have. It is the explanation from the 2020/21 laws when it was first introduced. Though at that time, a team-mate handling was also included. I also think the OP is an offence.

Russell Jones said:

I do find it interesting that when deciding ‘obviousness’ we have now been riven 5 factors to consider but with ‘immediateness’ we are left to our own devices!

For what it’s worth, I’d see the OP as immediate. But the video is great as it forces a choice around immediacy as there’s no way that should be called a penalisable handball otherwise

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Yeah, I think the video should be disallowed, but it’s a tough call to make at lower levels.
I hate all guidance that is left to subjectivity. Handball has always been a problem. The problem is when they simplified it they all handball was an offence, the game didn’t like it. So we are back to subjectivity.

Ori said:

Yeah, I think the video should be disallowed, but it’s a tough call to make at lower levels.
I hate all guidance that is left to subjectivity. Handball has always been a problem. The problem is when they simplified it they all handball was an offence, the game didn’t like it. So we are back to subjectivity.

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But at least on 80+% of handball decisions it's a simple binary subjective decision between whether or not the hand / arm in question is in a natural position for the body movement being undertaken.

For me, the biggest handball issue is the vicious circle where players appeal EVERY time the ball hits the hand / arm ---> refs giving in to the pressure to award offences where there are none --> greater likelihood of future appeals etc. etc.

The only way we, as a community, break this cycle, is to bravely and repeatedly turn down the spurious claims for handball offences and to continually stress to players that (outside of the OP situation) gaining an advantage from an accidental HB is NOT an offence.

Russell Jones said:

For me, the biggest handball issue is the vicious circle where players appeal EVERY time the ball hits the hand / arm ---> refs giving in to the pressure to award offences where there are none --> greater likelihood of future appeals etc. etc.

The only way we, as a community, break this cycle, is to bravely and repeatedly turn down the spurious claims for handball offences and to continually stress to players that (outside of the OP situation) gaining an advantage from an accidental HB is NOT an offence.

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Totally.

Whenever I hear those vain appeals of "Handball Ref" I always respond "No, ball to hand - play on!".

My two cents: this is clearly immediate within the spirit of the “inadvertent” handling by a scorer of it had been inadvertent.

But I have handling without that. The player is jumping at the opponent kicking the ball with his arms out in front of his body towards the ball. That isn’t accidental or natural position.

Ori said:

Yeah, I think the video should be disallowed, but it’s a tough call to make at lower levels.
I hate all guidance that is left to subjectivity. Handball has always been a problem. The problem is when they simplified it they all handball was an offence, the game didn’t like it. So we are back to subjectivity.

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I dispute that they ever “simplified” anything. They created a hot mess that didn’t work.

Russell Jones said:

The only way we, as a community, break this cycle, is to bravely and repeatedly turn down the spurious claims for handball offences and to continually stress to players that (outside of the OP situation) gaining an advantage from an accidental HB is NOT an offence.

Click to expand...

Kes said:

Whenever I hear those vain appeals of "Handball Ref" I always respond "No, ball to hand - play on!".

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"Ball to hand" is what created this problem. The real simple solution is to return to whenever the prevailing ruling was that the hand needed to be "against" the body and didn't affect the trajectory of the ball. That is the simplest, most straightforward, and easiest to interpret edition of the handball law. Everything else, including what we have now is an overcomplication.

Because of what we have now, everyone; referees, players, and spectators, don't actually know what a handball is because the law is written in such a way that nobody can know. Of course there will be vicious appeals.

socal lurker said:

I dispute that they ever “simplified” anything. They created a hot mess that didn’t work.

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Correct, as evidenced by the OP.