The Ref Stop

Wolves v Arsenal

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ladbroke8745

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Could/should Jesus have been sent off at the end?

Plenty of time wasting and, in my opinion, not a lot done about it.
Clearly some time was added and that obviously hurt Arsenal.
In the last 5-10 minutes alone, whilst 2-1, Arsenal had a corner that a Wolves player took the ball to the corner arc and still had to wait a minute or so to see who would be taking it. No Arsenal player made an attempt.
They then wasted their own time with a minute left when the ref insisted a throw be taken 5 yards further back. Player argued and refused to move, opting (eventually) to throw it backwards.
No sanctions.
 
The Ref Stop
I've only seen the shove by Jesus and wasn't watching the game so don't have a lot of context, but looked like UB C1 AA ./ BE to me. I think to give any more you reward the play acting of Mosquera(?) who goes down holding his face despite apparently zero contact to the head/face.
 
The petulant response made by Jesus got what it deserved in my opinion, a yellow card.

Did the Wolves player get what he deserved for charging into Trossard with the ball not even in the same post code and causing him to be substituted for apparent concussion?
 
ladbroke8745 said:
Could/should Jesus have been sent off at the end?

Plenty of time wasting and, in my opinion, not a lot done about it.
Clearly some time was added and that obviously hurt Arsenal.
In the last 5-10 minutes alone, whilst 2-1, Arsenal had a corner that a Wolves player took the ball to the corner arc and still had to wait a minute or so to see who would be taking it. No Arsenal player made an attempt.
They then wasted their own time with a minute left when the ref insisted a throw be taken 5 yards further back. Player argued and refused to move, opting (eventually) to throw it backwards.
No sanctions.
Click to expand...
Only answer is another Americanism - Timed game - 60 minutes - Which would be / will be a shame, but the behaviour is intolerable and arguably beyond control. Referees have never been able to get on top of time wasting antics - Players always win the battle - Despite the efforts made with C4's in recent seasons
 
Big Cat said:
Only answer is another Americanism - Timed game - 60 minutes - Which would be / will be a shame, but the behaviour is intolerable and arguably beyond control. Referees have never been able to get on top of time wasting antics - Players always win the battle - Despite the efforts made with C4's in recent seasons
Click to expand...
At grassroots too? I can see a lot of officials at the weekend forgetting to stop the clock for every throw in, corner, goal kick and losing track of it all!
Too far gone probably and equally as problematic but I think probably easier (just) to actually manage time wasting as it is now.
A whole other topic is how disgraceful it is that people are paying so much money to watch the ball in play for 45 minutes (or less!) with teams like Arsenal taking an age for every restart- so maybe the game does need the timed game you suggested!
I am now just arguing with myself!!
 
betterlatethannever said:
At grassroots too? I can see a lot of officials at the weekend forgetting to stop the clock for every throw in, corner, goal kick and losing track of it all!
Too far gone probably and equally as problematic but I think probably easier (just) to actually manage time wasting as it is now.
A whole other topic is how disgraceful it is that people are paying so much money to watch the ball in play for 45 minutes (or less!) with teams like Arsenal taking an age for every restart- so maybe the game does need the timed game you suggested!
I am now just arguing with myself!!
Click to expand...
Yes, a timed game would just be another way in which professional football is a different game from semi-pro and grass-roots
With VAR making the game a science, I'd foresee a good argument for completing the divorce with two rule books
 
betterlatethannever said:
At grassroots too? I can see a lot of officials at the weekend forgetting to stop the clock for every throw in, corner, goal kick and losing track of it all!
Too far gone probably and equally as problematic but I think probably easier (just) to actually manage time wasting as it is now.
A whole other topic is how disgraceful it is that people are paying so much money to watch the ball in play for 45 minutes (or less!) with teams like Arsenal taking an age for every restart- so maybe the game does need the timed game you suggested!
I am now just arguing with myself!!
Click to expand...
Though stopping the watch for every throw-in, corner kick & goal kick is not what should be happening, as included within the Guidance to Match Officials at the end of the Laws of the Game - “Many stoppages in play are entirely natural (e.g. throw-ins, goal kicks). An allowance is made only when delays are excessive”.
 
DavidObs said:
Though stopping the watch for every throw-in, corner kick & goal kick is not what should be happening, as included within the Guidance to Match Officials at the end of the Laws of the Game - “Many stoppages in play are entirely natural (e.g. throw-ins, goal kicks). An allowance is made only when delays are excessive”.
Click to expand...
I think he meant 'I see' as in 'I envisage, if we changed to a 60 minute timed game with time only running with ball in play', not that he actually sees it currently 😇
 
Big Cat said:
Yes, a timed game would just be another way in which professional football is a different game from semi-pro and grass-roots
With VAR making the game a science, I'd foresee a good argument for completing the divorce with two rule books
Click to expand...
Hopefully clubs like Arsenal and all those from the top of the pyramid to the bottom will now quickly realise if they haven’t before that they often shoot themselves in the foot by deliberate time wasting - I have seen it so many times, and includes knocking the ball around to each other within their own half of FoP & taking the ball to the corner arc of their opponents half, whereby they lose possession of the ball to their opponents who have nothing to lose & score a goal.
 
Last edited:
ladbroke8745 said:
Could/should Jesus have been sent off at the end?

Plenty of time wasting and, in my opinion, not a lot done about it.
Clearly some time was added and that obviously hurt Arsenal.
In the last 5-10 minutes alone, whilst 2-1, Arsenal had a corner that a Wolves player took the ball to the corner arc and still had to wait a minute or so to see who would be taking it. No Arsenal player made an attempt.
They then wasted their own time with a minute left when the ref insisted a throw be taken 5 yards further back. Player argued and refused to move, opting (eventually) to throw it backwards.
No sanctions.
Click to expand...
I personally think a yellow (C1 - BE) was fine here. A lot more needed to be done about the delaying the restart though. It was being done from the first minute to the last (almost exclusively by Arsenal) and absolutely no sanctions whatsoever were given.
 
This little compilation by Wolves on Facebook...

The corner that took an age.
Then Gabriel going down. You can see the frustration of the Arsenal player after the physio called on knowing the player will have to go off for a short time. Yet looked absolutely fine. Also, their commentator got it spot on, if there was an actual clash of heads, surely the Wolves player would be seriously hurt too.
Then, finally, the Trossard one. You literally see him sit up, look for the referee to ensure he has seen it. Saw no FK given so has a little lie down again. Then goes down AGAIN on the pitch to delay things further. Was this second down time to ensure Arsenal could get Califiori ready to come on so not down to 10 temporarily? I mean, he was coming off for 30 seconds anyway due to protocol so doing what he done, they managed to make a sub ensuring that not for any moment were they down to 10 men. Laughable that it backfired.

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we/refs do not deal with persistent delaying the game/restart adequately (despite having plenty of tools to do so) and it cheats fans and players/clubs out of game time. i really don't know why we're so against cautioning someone in the first half/early on but it's where some of the most egregious time wasting takes place

recently i've seen a keeper waste nearly a minute taking a free kick (taking a drink, walking very slowly to get the ball, setting the ball and moving it again) - the ref noted this, gave him the hurry up but then failed to add on the wasted time (it took place within additional time and the ref blew right as the 2 mins indicated were up) - why bother, is it just for show?!
 
es1 said:
we/refs do not deal with persistent delaying the game/restart adequately (despite having plenty of tools to do so) and it cheats fans and players/clubs out of game time. i really don't know why we're so against cautioning someone in the first half/early on but it's where some of the most egregious time wasting takes place

recently i've seen a keeper waste nearly a minute taking a free kick (taking a drink, walking very slowly to get the ball, setting the ball and moving it again) - the ref noted this, gave him the hurry up but then failed to add on the wasted time (it took place within additional time and the ref blew right as the 2 mins indicated were up) - why bother, is it just for show?!
Click to expand...
I don't disagree that we have the tools to deal with it and it's been a failing in the past, but lets not start feeling sorry for players/clubs. It's them who do it, and Wolves, despite moaning about Arsenal, would more than happily do similar in their next game if defending a goal lead. We can blame ourselves, but they can also look in the mirror too.
 
es1 said:
we/refs do not deal with persistent delaying the game/restart adequately (despite having plenty of tools to do so) and it cheats fans and players/clubs out of game time. i really don't know why we're so against cautioning someone in the first half/early on but it's where some of the most egregious time wasting takes place

recently i've seen a keeper waste nearly a minute taking a free kick (taking a drink, walking very slowly to get the ball, setting the ball and moving it again) - the ref noted this, gave him the hurry up but then failed to add on the wasted time (it took place within additional time and the ref blew right as the 2 mins indicated were up) - why bother, is it just for show?!
Click to expand...
That actually makes me laugh.

Rarely do we see refs play beyond the minimum mentioned.
Unless they've rounded up, I find it funny how the time added is, almost, always dead on the minute advertised (unless something serious happens like yesterday he played an extra 2 minutes).
Rarely, very rarely, do we see it actually be, for example, 2 minutes and 45 seconds (remember, its minimum of 2 minutes added).
 
RefereeX said:
I don't disagree that we have the tools to deal with it and it's been a failing in the past, but lets not start feeling sorry for players/clubs. It's them who do it, and Wolves, despite moaning about Arsenal, would more than happily do similar in their next game if defending a goal lead. We can blame ourselves, but they can also look in the mirror too.
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I'm entirely blaming refs here! Clubs do this because they know nothing significant will ever happen
 
es1 said:
I'm entirely blaming refs here! Clubs do this because they know nothing significant will ever happen
Click to expand...
If I started committing petty theft because I knew nothing significant would happen from the police, then someone robbed me, and everyone started robbing, I could hardly turn round and blame the police could I?

Also, lets look at it another way, because there's only certain types of time wasting we can deal with. Players feigning injury sadly isn't one of them and all we can do it add on a representative amount of time. That's never gonna be enough to stop it happening.
 
If you want to get started on a topic about police resources (or the lack of) I'm happy to do so but we'll be here a while!

The two are obviously not comparable, I get your point, but I don't agree.
 
RefereeX said:
If I started committing petty theft because I knew nothing significant would happen from the police, then someone robbed me, and everyone started robbing, I could hardly turn round and blame the police could I?

Also, lets look at it another way, because there's only certain types of time wasting we can deal with. Players feigning injury sadly isn't one of them and all we can do it add on a representative amount of time. That's never gonna be enough to stop it happening.
Click to expand...
Maybe we should not allow subs to be made until the 30 seconds minimum of waiting time for injuries (or ball next out, whatever comes last) to be made. Teams will think twice about feigning injury if they can just replace to nullify the supposed injury like with Califiori coming on for Trossard. Easier to make a sub than have to wait 30 seconds for Trossard to come back on.

Also, I don't think subs should be allowed to be made in added time. If a player has to go off injured in added time (and be replaced) then they have to sit out their next game (keeper exceptions).
 
ladbroke8745 said:
Maybe we should not allow subs to be made until the 30 seconds minimum of waiting time for injuries (or ball next out, whatever comes last) to be made. Teams will think twice about feigning injury if they can just replace to nullify the supposed injury like with Califiori coming on for Trossard. Easier to make a sub than have to wait 30 seconds for Trossard to come back on.

Also, I don't think subs should be allowed to be made in added time. If a player has to go off injured in added time (and be replaced) then they have to sit out their next game (keeper exceptions).
Click to expand...
Not sure this is feasible. If there is a genuine stoppage for a bad injury (maybe 10 mins plus) and then a team want to make a change during the added time which is effectively after only 80 mins of the match and we tell them they can't?
 
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