Runner Ref
RefChat Addict
But you are wrong in law. As people have explained above.
Goalkeeper Releasing the Ball
- Thread starter NOVARef
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ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
As a group we are considering the changes in law wording, which I suspect has inadvertently opened this as a balanced discussion. Unless IFAB tell us otherwise, my opinion is that the goalkeeper is releasing the ball in the OP description.
That said, the point about whether this is a hill to die on is very valid, as is the view of some that proactive refereeing would involve a shout to the goalkeeper.
bester
RefChat Addict
If the ball isn't between the hand and a surface it has to be held before the goalkeeper is considered to be in (edit) control.
If people think deliberately touching the ball counts as holding the ball then that's there right.
I didn't even think think was a debate anymore after the deliberate parry was removed from the law.
@Peter Grove Perhaps could provide some historial context on the deliberate parry
If people think deliberately touching the ball counts as holding the ball then that's there right.
I didn't even think think was a debate anymore after the deliberate parry was removed from the law.
@Peter Grove Perhaps could provide some historial context on the deliberate parry
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Just to clarify, my scenarios in my original post describe the goalkeeper handling the ball with no pressure but fumbling the ball and dropping it (not deliberately "electing" to put the ball into ball.) and then handling it again.
I think by OP he was referring to my original post, not the topics original post.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
@Peter Grove will be able to guide as to whether "deliberate parry" was in the Laws, and if so when it was removed.
In 1995, for example, the guidance was:
"with Law XII (o) .
(15) The International F.A . Board is of the
opinion that a goalkeeper, in the circumstances described in Law XI 15 (a), will be considered to be in control of the ball by touching it
with any part of his hands or arms. Possession
of the ball would include the goalkeeper intentionally parrying the ball, but would not include
the circumstances where, in the opinion of
the referee, the ball rebounds accidentally from the goalkeeper, for example after he has
made a save"
But Law 12 doesn't mention "in possession" now, it mentions "release".
I suspect this is a part of Law which has changed its meaning a little as various re-writes have occurred, and it's a part of Law which very few referees will ever have penalised, and going forward few if any will.
I would think if the GK dropped the ball and registered it while it was bouncing around no one would bat an eyelid. But do we think it matters how long GK allows the ball to stay on the ball before picking it up again? If, say, he leaves it 5 or 6 seconds do we start reconsidering if GK actions were deliberate?
The time would not count towards the 8 seconds, so I assume we would not wish to be encouraging deliberately sloppy handling
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
We can play the “what if” game all day in theory. In practice, use common sense—if it quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. And if you have any doubt whether it should be called, don’t call it. Make sure you’re punishing something that deserves to be punished. It’s why we get the big bucks!
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
But control is not mentioned in this section either . . . (?)
bester
RefChat Addict
For a goalkeeper to be considered to have released the ball from his hands he first needs to have met the conditions for having control of the ball with his hands.
My interpretation of @RefereeX scenario is the ball was never held so the ball can't have been released from the goalkeeper's hands.
"A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball with their hand(s)/
arm(s) when:
• the ball is between their hands/arms or between their hand(s)/arm(s) and
any surface (e.g. ground, own body)
• holding the ball in their outstretched open hand(s)
• bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air"
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
At the risk of extending this discussion about a very rare occurrence, others have pointed out that the text you have quoted is now elsewhere in law, and relates to the 8-second law.
Control is not now mentioned in the law relative to the goalkeeper handling after releasing the ball.
bester
RefChat Addict
So do I have this right...if a goalkeeper has control but accidentally loses control and immediately scoops it up (as in my original post), don't look for trouble. Let it go. But it's subjective as to if the goalkeeper accidentally lost control because anything deliberate is certainly a release. As to a goalkeeper deliberately parrying/palming a ball to his/her feet (not a save), then waiting for a defender to challenge to pick it up...this is OK? This isn't super clear to me after reading all the posts. It doesn't seem like everyone is in agreement on this.
My view is that this is okay. I was always comfortable with this before as well - again not looking for trouble and the spirit of the law (in my opinion of course).
Thanks!
one
RefChat Addict
Make sure you are clear on what action you are refering to as being okay. The post that you replied to has only one question that asks "<is this> OK?"